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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

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yes hello from the foothills of the

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Great Northern Wilderness I bid you all

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good evening good morning good afternoon

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wherever you may be Across the Nation

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around the world my name is Leah Prime

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and this is the invisible night school

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tonight we'll be talking about vehicle

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interference cases this show will be led

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by our resident dubious Layman Nick

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who's done an incredible amount of

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research

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but before I welcome our co-hosts on

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this evening I'd like to take a minute

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to read a statement on behalf of the

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invisible night school

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as a collaborative project in August

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2022 our founding reflects a desire to

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elevate the conversation around ufology

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for Tiana hi strangeness and all manner

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of the mysterious numinous and

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transcendent

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the invisible night school is not a

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monolith we are individuals with full

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independent agency and we bring a

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variety of experience background

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Frameworks and opinions to the subject's

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discussed

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while we are small and we are we desire

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to leave a legacy of high integrity good

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faith interrogation of the subjects we

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discuss if nothing else we want to

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demonstrate to our fellow community

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members what it looks like to explore

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together with a sense of generosity and

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curiosity

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that said we feel it is necessary to

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address events from the last few weeks

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ins has no intention or interest in

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policing the behaviors of others however

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we feel it is our responsibility to not

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platform engage with or otherwise

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legitimize harmful views promulgated by

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community members we do not tolerate

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hatred bigotry racism homophobia

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transphobia anti-Semitism or views that

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denigrate and dehumanize

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while we are dismayed by the comments

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made by chupacabra we are also

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disappointed in the community's silence

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and apologism we are calling upon other

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culture carriers and stewards of this

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community to similarly and directly make

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clear that hate is not welcome here

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to our queer gay black Hispanic trans

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and otherwise ineffable audience members

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and our colleagues we love you we

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support you and we want you with us on

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this journey

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ins is always seeking to do right by our

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audience and by ourselves we keep our

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communication open and welcome good

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faith conversations with any

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quote-unquote side of the subjects and

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ideas presented on this show

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now that I've got the serious posting

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out of the way and without any further

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delay I'd love to welcome this evening's

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co-host to the stream the brilliant

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Campbell the inimitable Luis

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and of course Nick our resident dubious

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Layman welcome to the show hey gentlemen

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how are you good well how are you Leah

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I'm just a little pinch of Heaven

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um and you know before we actually start

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off I'm trying to get in the habit of

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acknowledging our um our audience

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members right so hi to let me see I'm

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scrolling up here hi to Spooky hi to the

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Earth

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figu what's going on man Swank

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um oh special shout out to the audience

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member who sent me a mixtape I've been

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getting like little tokens of

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appreciation periodically from uh

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audience members and fans it's been

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super cool

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let me see who else is on here

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yeah I've worked here with a nice little

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heart

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which I appreciate

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um all right I think I've said a good

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round of hellos and uh now we'll happily

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turn this over to the rest of you

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are we ready for something less serious

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yes

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uh yeah we're talking about vehicle

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interference tonight at the request of a

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commenter uh maybe there's a couple

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episodes ago who accused us of always

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going after the low-hanging fruit which

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is interesting because I think the only

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other UFO case we've really talked about

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in depth on this channel was the Lake

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Michigan case which I still maintain is

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uh an unknown

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so I'm not really sure where that person

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was coming from but we took the advice

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and it turned out to be a pretty

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interesting Avenue to go down

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did uh did anybody else do their

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a little bit oh my godmeyer Yeah by uh

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modern cottmeyer yeah engine Stoppers

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yeah that's a good one I I would if you

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were gonna read anything that I was

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posting in the chat uh that would be at

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the top of my recommendations

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but there were some other good stuff

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could we get a brief summary of that

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article

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well we're kind of we're gonna touch on

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it as we go we're gonna get a whole

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presentation dude I've got a

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presentation a little bit yeah that's my

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uh way of uh suggesting that I might not

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have uh completed the reading did you do

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your homework it's okay there was a lot

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to read and not just on level and

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although

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um part of the focus will be on level in

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Texas is that case was specifically

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called out

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um in this comment uh the other one was

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the Tehran incident which I wanted to

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kind of uh I wanted to hold back on

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because we got a soft middle from Ryan

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Sprague that he was coming on at some

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point this year and uh I know he's done

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a really deep dive into that case so I

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wanted to save that so it focus on

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Levelland and kind of the history of

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vehicle interference especially in the

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United States

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mm-hmm

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we can we can get into it as soon as

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everybody's done

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socializing and getting everybody caught

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up on our personal lives and everything

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well any of us have personal lives dude

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I understand

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yeah I'm just sitting here in Ontario I

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think about about a foot of snow is

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falling right now just oh no enjoying

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myself inside right now with uh

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everybody here I'm really excited for

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this episode and uh but right before we

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begin I'll just say uh Leah I really

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appreciate that you uh made that comment

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we all support you 100 I know that and

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um I think that making a stand on moral

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issues like that makes me feel good

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about uh being a part of this community

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whereas otherwise we have to sort of sit

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silently uh by and not griefly with

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what's going on so I think that this is

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a positive uh step and I I encourage

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other content creators to move in a

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similar direction as Leah said

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agreed thanks Kimball I'm I'm enviously

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thinking about the foot of snow you're

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getting so I very deliberately did not

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go back to work full time so I could ski

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this season and we have no snow like

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what I haven't gone out once I can tell

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that you don't have a driveway no well I

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mean

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yes we do have a driveway but we don't

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have any snow

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I'm driving West until I hit a mountain

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with enough snow that I could actually

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enjoy it I don't know you can keep it

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that's okay all right uh Leah give me my

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slides please and we're gonna start this

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off yes Dr Nick thank you vehicle

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interference and I love this uh this

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quote from Peter Rogerson because it

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kind of encapsulates the whole thing who

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is Peter Rogerson another writer from

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Magonia if you're familiar okay article

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but he says those who have been in this

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business for years know of many cases in

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which are essentially non-events that

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have escalated in the hands of over

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eager ufologists and I just say theme

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we're gonna see throughout the night

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[Music]

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um

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most of my research was done

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um from this alarming looking document

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UFO involving vehicle interference by

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Mark rodiger of kufos uh kiefos famously

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was uh Center for UFO studies out of

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Illinois jail and heinek's group

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uh he put together this document that

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kind of

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catalogs all the cases and gives a brief

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write-up and cites sources which led me

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to the first case

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um while they were waves in I think

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their 20s and 30s in France we get an

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early uh addition to the lineup here in

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1909 where a motorcycle was driving

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alongside Globe globular light going

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over said the headlamp went out now I

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wasn't able to find this original Source

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this East Anglican Daily Times

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however our friend from the Discord

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simonfly pointed out that in 1909 the

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majority of motorcycles had um acetylene

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lamps or also called carbide lamps they

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are gas powered so this was not an

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electrical issue also the way this is

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written I think is a little vague and

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it doesn't really

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come out and state that the two events

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were related the going out of the

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headlamp and the uh

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the object he saw but from what I

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understand these lamps went out all the

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time

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so

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kind of off to a rough start

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s but we gonna We get into it a little

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bit better as the years progress um the

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next one was from 1944 this was taken

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out of the apro journal if you're

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familiar with there's a lot of those on

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the AFU the AFU was another great

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resource for me looking these up

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with this report

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um two women are driving home in the

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mountains their car engines stalled and

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then they see in front of them

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essentially a translucent blimp that's

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leaving a rainbow Trail

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um again it doesn't explicitly say that

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these two events are related says their

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car engine stalls and they see this

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however this story is completely

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anecdotal and there's no provenance to

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this in fact

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along with the usual flow of reports

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coming to the headquarters some old but

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very interesting ones will we will

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summarize here we don't know these

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Witnesses we don't know where this story

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comes from and in fact a little later

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we're going to see how important that is

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where you need to know the Providence of

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these stories

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to know if you even need to take them

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seriously Nick would you uh be able to

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comment for us on the the reason or the

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motivation for collecting these reports

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uh positive or negative what's the

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purpose

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yeah I think that people

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um like roadiger they're they're looking

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for patterns they're looking for

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like aspects of ufology that you can

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kind of quantify right like I understand

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kind of the idea behind this

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um because there are no known

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established qualities of a UFO right

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whether I mean I say UFO I'm saying UFO

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in the inside ufology sense like we're

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we're looking for flying saucers

280
00:12:27,769 --> 00:12:24,959
essentially at this point right so

281
00:12:29,389 --> 00:12:27,779
there's no known established agreed upon

282
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:29,399
qualities

283
00:12:34,130 --> 00:12:32,399
of a UFO uh very similar to ghost

284
00:12:36,290 --> 00:12:34,140
hunting um there's actually argument

285
00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:36,300
behind that do they leave Cold spots do

286
00:12:41,930 --> 00:12:38,100
they make hot spots that you see in IR

287
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:41,940
right there's there's no um

288
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:43,440
you know qualities of these things that

289
00:12:48,050 --> 00:12:45,480
we agree on I think that that's this is

290
00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:48,060
kind of an attempt to that

291
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:50,579
um also when you when you're interfering

292
00:12:53,569 --> 00:12:52,380
or you're interacting with physical

293
00:12:54,350 --> 00:12:53,579
things

294
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:54,360
um

295
00:12:58,370 --> 00:12:56,160
it might leave a footprint that you can

296
00:13:00,410 --> 00:12:58,380
test for I think that's kind of the

297
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:00,420
premise behind this okay

298
00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:03,720
um as we'll see it doesn't quite work

299
00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:05,880
out that way in my opinion

300
00:13:10,370 --> 00:13:07,980
like for instance this this is an

301
00:13:12,650 --> 00:13:10,380
anecdotal story that we again don't know

302
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:12,660
the provenance of it's it's an

303
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:14,399
interesting story but that's all you can

304
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:15,600
say from it you can't really walk away

305
00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:19,860
with real information from this but

306
00:13:23,329 --> 00:13:21,899
moving along oh I'm sorry this is very

307
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:23,339
blurry

308
00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:26,220
um I was able to find the article for

309
00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:28,920
this uh UFO dropped out of nowhere into

310
00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:30,540
the headlights of the couple I believe

311
00:13:34,009 --> 00:13:32,279
that means like in front of them in the

312
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:34,019
beams

313
00:13:38,449 --> 00:13:36,959
um and it flew over them you notice the

314
00:13:40,370 --> 00:13:38,459
only vehicle interference that's

315
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,380
mentioned in this case was an amount of

316
00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:42,240
static

317
00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:43,740
um a lot of the cases you'll have the

318
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:46,500
headlights dying the engine dyeing radio

319
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,399
2. this one is just the radio so it

320
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:51,839
seems there's it's kind of a

321
00:13:56,329 --> 00:13:53,519
non-homogeny among

322
00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:56,339
um symptoms of UFO vehicle and uh

323
00:14:02,750 --> 00:13:58,500
interference as well

324
00:14:05,389 --> 00:14:02,760
uh I happen to notice that in this in

325
00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:05,399
this issue of this paper the Tulsa

326
00:14:09,949 --> 00:14:09,060
Tribune alone there was a lot of talk of

327
00:14:14,329 --> 00:14:09,959
um

328
00:14:16,670 --> 00:14:14,339
kind of cold war paranoia there were

329
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,680
talks about uh

330
00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:18,480
God I shared I shared you the headline

331
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:20,100
with you guys it was

332
00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:23,880
um Senator here's red TV Moon Jam

333
00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:26,459
signals I think which is essentially

334
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:28,920
this is this is uh we're getting closer

335
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:30,600
to the time of Sputnik and you'll see

336
00:14:36,370 --> 00:14:32,880
the effect of that closer when we get to

337
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:36,380
leveling but this kind of cold war

338
00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:39,060
paranoia that's going on you see a lot

339
00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:40,079
of

340
00:14:44,509 --> 00:14:42,060
what I would call propaganda in these

341
00:14:46,009 --> 00:14:44,519
newspapers about the Reds doing all this

342
00:14:47,530 --> 00:14:46,019
kind of crazy stuff like creating

343
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,540
satellites that

344
00:14:52,129 --> 00:14:50,160
hijacks uh all of our Communications and

345
00:14:55,129 --> 00:14:52,139
television broadcasts

346
00:14:58,610 --> 00:14:55,139
and then there was this uh

347
00:15:01,250 --> 00:14:58,620
this article and I'm not exactly sure

348
00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:01,260
um what this article was reporting it

349
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:03,180
was more kind of the formation of a new

350
00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:06,000
group a new UFO group that was a

351
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,180
subsidiary of nycap at the time and they

352
00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:11,040
threw out a couple of UFO stories that

353
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,420
they had collected

354
00:15:16,910 --> 00:15:14,880
from this one but interesting to note I

355
00:15:18,410 --> 00:15:16,920
think the point to take away from this

356
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:18,420
case and the thing to highlight is that

357
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:21,000
it was only the radio that failed and

358
00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:23,839
not the car engine or the headlights

359
00:15:29,569 --> 00:15:26,760
moving forward in time

360
00:15:32,509 --> 00:15:29,579
we come to you September 13th oh my

361
00:15:34,490 --> 00:15:32,519
boyfriend Dr valet yeah I've got

362
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:34,500
something to say about valet today

363
00:15:38,750 --> 00:15:36,839
um that photo's beautiful he looks very

364
00:15:40,250 --> 00:15:38,760
seductive yeah I picked that one

365
00:15:43,009 --> 00:15:40,260
intentionally

366
00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:43,019
um so this case are you guys familiar

367
00:15:49,850 --> 00:15:45,660
with the Flatwoods Monster yeah I am

368
00:15:52,129 --> 00:15:49,860
could you give us a rundown uh yes oh no

369
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,139
you go I was gonna say it's uh I think

370
00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:54,240
it's like a West virginia-ish Cryptid

371
00:15:59,930 --> 00:15:57,000
similar to like Mothman and it's it's

372
00:16:02,449 --> 00:15:59,940
head kind of looks like a spade uh with

373
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:02,459
two two big uh red eyes you probably

374
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:03,899
can't see it very well but I have a

375
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,720
tattoo of them on on my wrist oh is this

376
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:09,120
the one that vaguely looks like an owl

377
00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:10,079
or whatever

378
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:12,360
yeah kinda I think I've read a debunking

379
00:16:17,870 --> 00:16:14,880
of it that claimed it was an owl almost

380
00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:17,880
like inverted heart-shaped head uh okay

381
00:16:22,910 --> 00:16:21,240
yes now just like a frock anyway sorry

382
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:22,920
go ahead I'll give a rundown of of the

383
00:16:27,889 --> 00:16:25,680
sighting um this was a meteor actually

384
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:27,899
and this was a cataloged a meteor passed

385
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:29,160
over West Virginia

386
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:30,480
um some boys were out playing football

387
00:16:35,210 --> 00:16:32,760
they saw it they went home told their

388
00:16:37,790 --> 00:16:35,220
parents got a group together ran up the

389
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:37,800
hill to I think it was uh Fisher's Farm

390
00:16:41,810 --> 00:16:40,320
where excuse me they said they spelled

391
00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:41,820
and they smelled kind of a noxious gas

392
00:16:47,629 --> 00:16:45,180
kind of a sulfuric smell

393
00:16:49,490 --> 00:16:47,639
um saw glowing object

394
00:16:52,189 --> 00:16:49,500
heard a hiss turned around in the

395
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,199
flashlight beams they saw this uh this

396
00:16:58,910 --> 00:16:54,959
monster yes they're not what they seem

397
00:17:01,910 --> 00:16:58,920
um this this event Was Then reported on

398
00:17:02,810 --> 00:17:01,920
by uh gray Barker it was his first UFO

399
00:17:04,970 --> 00:17:02,820
story

400
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:04,980
and uh he's the guy who wrote invisible

401
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,199
residence he was a I think a biologist

402
00:17:12,890 --> 00:17:08,880
he was some type of scientist but then

403
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:12,900
he got kind of into pulpy journalism

404
00:17:17,390 --> 00:17:14,880
um and the story kind of progressed now

405
00:17:19,130 --> 00:17:17,400
this uh this story

406
00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:19,140
that mentions vehicle interference here

407
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:22,140
that was cited in passport to Magonia by

408
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,199
a certain Paul leib as uh Jacques Valley

409
00:17:31,370 --> 00:17:28,079
cites it was told five years later

410
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:31,380
although the actual event was allegedly

411
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:33,720
uh took place the day after the original

412
00:17:39,169 --> 00:17:36,720
Flatwood sighting uh tells the story of

413
00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:39,179
a man I think he's from New York but he

414
00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:40,440
was driving through West Virginia with

415
00:17:45,289 --> 00:17:43,020
his wife and his baby in the back seat

416
00:17:46,909 --> 00:17:45,299
and their car stalled and the monster

417
00:17:49,850 --> 00:17:46,919
kind of like

418
00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:49,860
touched their car and scared them and

419
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:52,260
just walked away

420
00:17:54,890 --> 00:17:53,280
um

421
00:17:56,330 --> 00:17:54,900
I see I'm pretty familiar with the

422
00:17:59,330 --> 00:17:56,340
Flatwood story but I had never heard

423
00:18:01,130 --> 00:17:59,340
this before so I started tracking down

424
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:01,140
the leads

425
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:02,160
um

426
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:05,460
you'll notice that roadiger refers to

427
00:18:11,450 --> 00:18:07,620
passport to Magonia as the source for

428
00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:11,460
this and you'll see that valet uh cites

429
00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:12,900
Paul Lieb

430
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:16,740
this took a this took a big a bit of oh

431
00:18:22,490 --> 00:18:19,919
yeah Vancouver guys kind of uh he's

432
00:18:25,250 --> 00:18:22,500
given spoilers in there it turns out it

433
00:18:27,470 --> 00:18:25,260
comes from a pulp magazine called mail

434
00:18:29,690 --> 00:18:27,480
and I'm pretty sure that not only is the

435
00:18:31,370 --> 00:18:29,700
story fictional but Paul Lieb the

436
00:18:34,190 --> 00:18:31,380
alleged president of the Flying Saucer

437
00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:34,200
Research Institute is also fictional

438
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,660
this atoms of the old west we're going

439
00:18:42,770 --> 00:18:39,200
to do an episode on that next yeah

440
00:18:45,289 --> 00:18:42,780
so this this was a fictional story uh I

441
00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:45,299
feel very confident in saying

442
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,640
um but it it's again it's cited by valet

443
00:18:50,990 --> 00:18:49,200
it was cited by rodiger I believe it's

444
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:51,000
cited by Kevin Randall who's a big

445
00:18:54,370 --> 00:18:52,559
proponent of the level one case that was

446
00:18:57,230 --> 00:18:54,380
in his book uh Invasion Washington

447
00:19:01,250 --> 00:18:57,240
primarily concerning the uh the 1952

448
00:19:03,529 --> 00:19:01,260
Washington DC Flying Saucer Invasion

449
00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:03,539
um but it travels around and I thought

450
00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:05,640
this was kind of a microcosm of how this

451
00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:08,940
UFO narrative kind of grows and

452
00:19:12,830 --> 00:19:11,580
attributes are added on to the UFO

453
00:19:13,490 --> 00:19:12,840
experience

454
00:19:16,330 --> 00:19:13,500
um

455
00:19:20,029 --> 00:19:16,340
because this is completely a fake story

456
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:20,039
what book what book did Val Dr valet

457
00:19:24,770 --> 00:19:22,020
cited in do you know

458
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:24,780
he cited it in passport to Magonia oh

459
00:19:31,490 --> 00:19:28,380
okay and yeah he deliberately only cites

460
00:19:34,730 --> 00:19:31,500
the author Paul Lieb who actually in

461
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:34,740
this story uh what's his name's uh

462
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:37,740
snatowski is relaying this report to

463
00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:39,900
this alleged Flying Saucer group

464
00:19:42,529 --> 00:19:41,220
president

465
00:19:44,570 --> 00:19:42,539
um who was a fictional character

466
00:19:48,169 --> 00:19:44,580
interesting he left out that it was from

467
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:48,179
male uh magazine that's quite uh that's

468
00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:50,640
a very interesting fact because Dr

469
00:19:55,970 --> 00:19:52,500
Jacques valet is considered one of the

470
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,980
top uh professional academic UFO

471
00:20:00,289 --> 00:19:57,840
researchers and this was a sort of his

472
00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:00,299
Heyday before he had sort of moved into

473
00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:02,100
the more uh what we would call I guess

474
00:20:09,710 --> 00:20:06,120
woo-woo stuff and you see this uh level

475
00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:09,720
of um not sort of being

476
00:20:15,049 --> 00:20:12,840
to the top of the potential for academic

477
00:20:17,870 --> 00:20:15,059
integrity and that's disappointing for

478
00:20:19,850 --> 00:20:17,880
anybody who wants to go to the bank with

479
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,860
this right like with a ballet book you

480
00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:21,360
want to sort of hand this to someone

481
00:20:26,990 --> 00:20:23,640
who's a skeptic or something and like

482
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:27,000
try to right some of something no and I

483
00:20:30,830 --> 00:20:28,140
think we've talked about this a little

484
00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:30,840
bit about valet about how

485
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,280
he just seems like a very credulous

486
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:34,320
person to me he takes things at face

487
00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:36,480
value I mean he was a he's a believer in

488
00:20:40,669 --> 00:20:39,000
your Yeller you know uh very vocal he

489
00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:40,679
wrote about it in all his books

490
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:43,260
um there was the uh the hairdryer

491
00:20:55,010 --> 00:20:45,000
incident I don't know if you caught that

492
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,630
um so yeah I thought that was

493
00:21:01,610 --> 00:20:58,320
disappointing and

494
00:21:04,010 --> 00:21:01,620
um another dud of a story I mean we were

495
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:04,020
it's all swinging a miss so far with

496
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:05,760
these vehicle interference cases in my

497
00:21:10,010 --> 00:21:07,860
opinion not much to really sink your

498
00:21:11,090 --> 00:21:10,020
teeth into get had a couple of anecdotal

499
00:21:11,870 --> 00:21:11,100
stories

500
00:21:14,090 --> 00:21:11,880
um

501
00:21:17,090 --> 00:21:14,100
that much to kind of corroborate them

502
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:17,100
now we're moving on to this um let's

503
00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:18,480
look let me jump into and I mean like

504
00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:20,160
let's talk about this publication right

505
00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:22,620
like it's definitely a pulp um I love

506
00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:24,660
the cowboy on the front but that's only

507
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:26,520
because it's been it's been a lonely

508
00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:28,320
year in Leah's life

509
00:21:33,169 --> 00:21:31,380
um yeah but um right and like it's sort

510
00:21:35,149 --> 00:21:33,179
of in in a sense the kind of vibe here

511
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:35,159
reminds me of like the shaper Mysteries

512
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,600
or the shaver stories where they're

513
00:21:40,490 --> 00:21:38,880
showing up in these like pulps and

514
00:21:42,890 --> 00:21:40,500
they're kind of couched in this like

515
00:21:44,750 --> 00:21:42,900
almost game of telephone right that we

516
00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:44,760
see almost in a lot of Victorian horror

517
00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:47,580
novels where it isn't presented as

518
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:50,220
factually true because that adds like a

519
00:21:55,130 --> 00:21:53,520
layer of horror or weirdness to it even

520
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:55,140
though it's obviously a fictional

521
00:21:59,390 --> 00:21:57,120
account or some kind of

522
00:22:01,130 --> 00:21:59,400
um you know story or myth that's being

523
00:22:03,230 --> 00:22:01,140
narrated yeah

524
00:22:06,049 --> 00:22:03,240
you know and as far as I can tell this

525
00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:06,059
uh snatowski this actual witness to this

526
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,860
event allegedly

527
00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:10,080
um never mentioned it four or five years

528
00:22:16,490 --> 00:22:12,360
and then when he did he strictly only

529
00:22:18,890 --> 00:22:16,500
told uh the writers at mail magazine so

530
00:22:21,169 --> 00:22:18,900
it's pretty it's pretty suspicious but

531
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:21,179
uh I mean even today when you go to most

532
00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:24,720
like UFO centered websites or um or

533
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:26,820
databases they have

534
00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:30,480
a lot of little summaries of cases uh

535
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:32,460
but not a lot of detail in it and I and

536
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:33,720
they just get picked up like you said

537
00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:34,860
look you gave me telephone and just

538
00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:37,260
passed along passed along I also ran

539
00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:38,520
into that when I was working on my

540
00:22:40,370 --> 00:22:39,700
Hudson Valley case

541
00:22:41,090 --> 00:22:40,380
[Music]

542
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:41,100
um

543
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:42,960
I had known that story for a really long

544
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:45,600
time but had never known the uh I'd

545
00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:47,340
never known about the pilots

546
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:50,340
so it took some independent research and

547
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:52,080
looking and digging to to actually even

548
00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:53,760
dig that out

549
00:23:00,169 --> 00:22:57,539
so anyway moving on from mail magazine

550
00:23:00,950 --> 00:23:00,179
we're getting to Loveland

551
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:00,960
um

552
00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:03,120
how many do you guys know the story of

553
00:23:06,610 --> 00:23:04,860
Levelland

554
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:06,620
pretty much

555
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:09,679
like I'm five years old

556
00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:12,480
Luis do you want to explain it

557
00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:15,240
oh well okay but correctly I'll go into

558
00:23:23,090 --> 00:23:18,360
detail too but I think so

559
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,100
when was it actually 1957 yes yeah uh

560
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:25,919
November uh second and third it was over

561
00:23:31,010 --> 00:23:28,559
uh Saturday and Sunday Saturday night

562
00:23:32,450 --> 00:23:31,020
Sunday morning in November in level in

563
00:23:34,669 --> 00:23:32,460
Texas

564
00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:34,679
uh they were driving in a truck I think

565
00:23:40,669 --> 00:23:37,620
these two guys and they one of them

566
00:23:44,570 --> 00:23:40,679
reported that he saw a electronic rocket

567
00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:44,580
as he described it and um that uh his

568
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:46,440
engine shut off I think it might have

569
00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:47,640
been the radio but I think the engine

570
00:23:53,149 --> 00:23:50,580
shut off it was the engine yeah

571
00:23:57,649 --> 00:23:53,159
and um then after that there was like a

572
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:57,659
wave of a similar stories yes I'd say

573
00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:00,240
that's pretty accurate

574
00:24:05,330 --> 00:24:02,700
um yes this is so like I mentioned

575
00:24:07,070 --> 00:24:05,340
earlier uh valet talks about a an

576
00:24:08,810 --> 00:24:07,080
earlier French wave of vehicle

577
00:24:11,810 --> 00:24:08,820
interference this is the big one in the

578
00:24:15,289 --> 00:24:11,820
United States and again this is November

579
00:24:17,930 --> 00:24:15,299
of 1957. uh keep that in mind as we go

580
00:24:20,029 --> 00:24:17,940
through we'll kind of come back to that

581
00:24:22,190 --> 00:24:20,039
but uh here's the Blue Book record Blue

582
00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:22,200
Book did investigate this

583
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:23,460
um we'll get to their conclusions a

584
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:25,440
little later in their investigation

585
00:24:32,510 --> 00:24:26,640
but

586
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:32,520
as Louis said uh Pedro saucedo oops I'm

587
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:33,900
skipping ahead here

588
00:24:38,570 --> 00:24:35,700
like he said he was uh he was riding

589
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:38,580
with his friend Joe Salas I think I

590
00:24:41,930 --> 00:24:39,780
wrote it down here

591
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:41,940
saw uh a blue light said it looked like

592
00:24:46,850 --> 00:24:44,760
a rocket or a torpedo um he jumped out

593
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:46,860
of the cab and hit the dirt as he said

594
00:24:52,010 --> 00:24:49,679
because he was afraid he felt uh a lot

595
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:52,020
of heat heard thunder

596
00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:55,260
and uh he quickly called the police like

597
00:24:59,450 --> 00:24:57,720
right after this and reported this

598
00:25:01,130 --> 00:24:59,460
um there were a couple other prominent

599
00:25:03,470 --> 00:25:01,140
Witnesses

600
00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:03,480
we'll get back to that uh Newell Wright

601
00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:05,700
he was an 18 year old he was a student

602
00:25:10,130 --> 00:25:08,220
of I can't remember the university also

603
00:25:12,289 --> 00:25:10,140
driving home around midnight engine

604
00:25:14,810 --> 00:25:12,299
stalls and he sees a luminous object he

605
00:25:18,049 --> 00:25:14,820
describes it as either egg-shaped or um

606
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:18,059
bread loaf shaped

607
00:25:22,970 --> 00:25:20,880
um sees it hovering gets back in his car

608
00:25:24,769 --> 00:25:22,980
starts back up again goes home goes to

609
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:24,779
sleep because he didn't think much of

610
00:25:28,730 --> 00:25:26,880
this event his parents who were friends

611
00:25:31,370 --> 00:25:28,740
with the sheriff who heard about this

612
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:31,380
the next day encouraged him to go report

613
00:25:36,049 --> 00:25:32,640
it as well

614
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,059
so parents pressured him into reporting

615
00:25:41,090 --> 00:25:38,159
this he he has this

616
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:41,100
event where his car stalls he looks up

617
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:43,260
sees a glowing object

618
00:25:48,049 --> 00:25:45,480
and it shoots off then he starts up his

619
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:48,059
car again allegedly

620
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:49,919
um and doesn't think much of it keep

621
00:25:55,549 --> 00:25:51,600
that in mind

622
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:55,559
we have another witness Ronald Martin uh

623
00:25:59,810 --> 00:25:58,080
similar sighting he did not report it uh

624
00:26:02,450 --> 00:25:59,820
right away he reported it after the fact

625
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:02,460
he came into I believe it was the police

626
00:26:06,350 --> 00:26:04,080
station although he was nowhere to be

627
00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:06,360
found when air force came to do their

628
00:26:09,409 --> 00:26:08,100
investigation

629
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:09,419
um you can't see it on my slide very

630
00:26:14,090 --> 00:26:12,240
well I'm going to try to blow that up

631
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:14,100
there is a group called The civilian

632
00:26:19,130 --> 00:26:15,600
saucer intelligence who is going around

633
00:26:21,289 --> 00:26:19,140
talking about a rumor of hoaxing

634
00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:21,299
um they thought that this Ronald Martin

635
00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:23,880
was not the most reliable witness uh he

636
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:25,380
wasn't from there he didn't stick around

637
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:26,700
for the Air Force

638
00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:28,380
there was a press release going around

639
00:26:33,169 --> 00:26:31,500
saying that an unidentified employer of

640
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:33,179
his said that he couldn't have been

641
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,110
I couldn't find that article there's

642
00:26:43,549 --> 00:26:42,240
it's this one's really messy

643
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:43,559
um I don't know what this civilian

644
00:26:48,590 --> 00:26:45,840
software intelligence rumor is I don't

645
00:26:51,049 --> 00:26:48,600
know what this unidentified employer is

646
00:26:53,090 --> 00:26:51,059
puts question on the account but not so

647
00:26:56,090 --> 00:26:53,100
much it's all kind of up in the air

648
00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:56,100
right but the fact is he came in later

649
00:27:00,890 --> 00:26:58,200
after it was known about the sighting

650
00:27:03,409 --> 00:27:00,900
gave his account

651
00:27:06,649 --> 00:27:03,419
and then we have

652
00:27:08,570 --> 00:27:06,659
at least oh sorry uh this is redacted

653
00:27:11,930 --> 00:27:08,580
but this is about Roland Martin

654
00:27:14,570 --> 00:27:11,940
they tried to find him could not

655
00:27:17,390 --> 00:27:14,580
there were uh four other witnesses that

656
00:27:19,789 --> 00:27:17,400
called uh I believe it was Jeff Fowler

657
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:19,799
he was at the police station they yeah

658
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:23,039
AJ Fowler on the phone they didn't come

659
00:27:26,930 --> 00:27:24,720
in for uh

660
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:26,940
for interviews they didn't they didn't

661
00:27:29,690 --> 00:27:28,260
they weren't interviewed by the Air

662
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,700
Force for Blue Book that's James Long

663
00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:31,200
Jim wheeler Joe Alvarez and Frank

664
00:27:33,409 --> 00:27:32,220
Williams

665
00:27:35,570 --> 00:27:33,419
so

666
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:35,580
over that night over that uh Saturday

667
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,260
night Sunday morning there were a number

668
00:27:42,830 --> 00:27:40,080
of people who reported this now

669
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:42,840
the the only one who reported it at the

670
00:27:46,970 --> 00:27:46,080
time was Pedro and his uh his friend in

671
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,980
the cab

672
00:27:51,529 --> 00:27:48,960
new all right like I said reported it

673
00:27:52,610 --> 00:27:51,539
the next day because of his parents

674
00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:52,620
urging and they were friends with

675
00:27:57,230 --> 00:27:54,779
Sheriff Weir Clem

676
00:27:58,970 --> 00:27:57,240
Ronald Martin this I'm sorry this uh

677
00:28:02,390 --> 00:27:58,980
this accuracy of witness reporting was

678
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:02,400
done by um Antonio roulan who's wrote in

679
00:28:07,370 --> 00:28:04,500
two great documents on this case

680
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:07,380
um a lot of great information

681
00:28:12,529 --> 00:28:10,080
but kind of looking at these witness

682
00:28:16,909 --> 00:28:12,539
statements of the event

683
00:28:18,769 --> 00:28:16,919
it kind of hinges on Pedro cesado in my

684
00:28:20,990 --> 00:28:18,779
opinion right he if

685
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:21,000
he hadn't reported it Newell Wright

686
00:28:24,890 --> 00:28:23,880
wouldn't have and very likely none of

687
00:28:26,570 --> 00:28:24,900
these other Witnesses would have

688
00:28:28,130 --> 00:28:26,580
reported it

689
00:28:30,049 --> 00:28:28,140
so blue book comes in and they're

690
00:28:32,510 --> 00:28:30,059
investigating they do interview Pedro

691
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:32,520
and they do interview Newell

692
00:28:40,190 --> 00:28:37,200
um and in their documents I found

693
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:40,200
this saying that Pedro's truck the day

694
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:44,159
before uh had some work done on it

695
00:28:49,730 --> 00:28:46,799
now they say they had a rotor replaced

696
00:28:51,890 --> 00:28:49,740
and part of the old broken rotor wedged

697
00:28:54,049 --> 00:28:51,900
itself in between the uh the points of

698
00:28:56,390 --> 00:28:54,059
the ignition

699
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:56,400
and they uh

700
00:28:59,690 --> 00:28:57,840
they they don't really corroborate this

701
00:29:01,130 --> 00:28:59,700
and there's no follow-up I just noticed

702
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,140
this was in there

703
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:03,120
I'm not a car person but I know what a

704
00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:04,320
rotor is

705
00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:05,820
um it's kind of what the brake calipers

706
00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:07,260
grab onto

707
00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:09,480
those are the wheels now the ignition

708
00:29:13,730 --> 00:29:11,400
system is up in the engine I don't know

709
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,740
how this is possible how a piece of a

710
00:29:17,930 --> 00:29:15,600
broken rotor can wedge itself in the

711
00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:17,940
ignition however this is documented and

712
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:20,220
I thought I should present it I spoke to

713
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:22,080
Kevin Randall about this he says it

714
00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:23,460
doesn't make sense to him keep in mind

715
00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:25,980
he is a big proponent of this case take

716
00:29:30,529 --> 00:29:27,960
it with a grain of salt

717
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:30,539
um I thought this was odd but also

718
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:32,880
interesting he um they apparently found

719
00:29:36,049 --> 00:29:34,799
the records that the car was serviced

720
00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:36,059
the day before

721
00:29:40,610 --> 00:29:38,039
and there's a broken piece in it oh

722
00:29:43,610 --> 00:29:40,620
quick quick side note here from uh

723
00:29:46,010 --> 00:29:43,620
Duncan prayer that the rotor is in the

724
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:46,020
distributor I was thinking break rotors

725
00:29:50,210 --> 00:29:47,760
okay that maybe makes a little more

726
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:50,220
sense yeah that's what Maya said as well

727
00:29:56,570 --> 00:29:54,240
okay perfect good well so there's that

728
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:56,580
so if we take Pedro

729
00:30:01,010 --> 00:29:59,520
kind of out of this sighting the rest of

730
00:30:03,769 --> 00:30:01,020
it doesn't really make any sense right

731
00:30:06,649 --> 00:30:03,779
Nick um what uh I'm just curious about

732
00:30:10,250 --> 00:30:06,659
the timeline if you could provide some

733
00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:10,260
clarity so once Pedro saw the uh the

734
00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:13,020
reported seeing the object yes was it

735
00:30:17,149 --> 00:30:15,000
then that it was reported in the news it

736
00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:17,159
was it only after it was reported in the

737
00:30:20,269 --> 00:30:18,600
newspaper that other people came forward

738
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:20,279
or were there any people that came

739
00:30:24,110 --> 00:30:22,080
forward before it was publicly known

740
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:24,120
that those first sighting happened it's

741
00:30:27,769 --> 00:30:25,679
kind of hard to say uh I believe

742
00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:27,779
leveling at the time had a population of

743
00:30:32,450 --> 00:30:29,460
about 8 000.

744
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:32,460
um I know that local reporting started

745
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:34,260
the next day and then it became National

746
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:37,320
within another day so this story was

747
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:38,760
huge and it was getting National

748
00:30:42,529 --> 00:30:40,740
syndication

749
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,539
um

750
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:44,640
I believe

751
00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:47,580
Pedro was the only person to call that

752
00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:48,779
night

753
00:30:51,529 --> 00:30:49,740
um

754
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:51,539
there may have been others and I know

755
00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:53,760
that uh the police actually did go out

756
00:30:58,909 --> 00:30:56,039
looking for the object saw they said

757
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:58,919
they saw um flashes of light in the sky

758
00:31:03,049 --> 00:31:00,720
and streaks of light in the sky but

759
00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:03,059
never never any solid objects and the

760
00:31:07,549 --> 00:31:04,740
police did not experience any vehicle

761
00:31:13,310 --> 00:31:10,130
um so blue book does arrive uh they

762
00:31:16,190 --> 00:31:13,320
interview Pedro Newell

763
00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:16,200
um and they kind of hastily come to the

764
00:31:22,909 --> 00:31:19,320
conclusion that it was ball lightning

765
00:31:25,850 --> 00:31:22,919
now uh

766
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,860
this this uh this conclusion that it

767
00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:27,360
came to you got out right away a lot of

768
00:31:31,789 --> 00:31:30,120
prominent ufologists uh hammered back on

769
00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:31,799
it and actually

770
00:31:37,549 --> 00:31:34,020
the slide looks a little corrupted the

771
00:31:39,409 --> 00:31:37,559
formatting here but we have uh Donald

772
00:31:42,049 --> 00:31:39,419
Menzel proponent of the ball lightning

773
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:42,059
Theory talking about freak weather

774
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,399
um rain thunderstorms and lightning

775
00:31:48,590 --> 00:31:47,039
uh the Blue Book description uh Dark

776
00:31:50,029 --> 00:31:48,600
Knight 400 foot ceiling a complete

777
00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:50,039
overcast and light drizzle heavy

778
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:51,419
thunderstorms had just passed through

779
00:31:55,010 --> 00:31:52,559
the area

780
00:31:56,690 --> 00:31:55,020
now contrary to that um we had people

781
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:56,700
like James McDonald and Jay Allen

782
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,760
heineck saying that they checked with uh

783
00:32:03,529 --> 00:32:01,919
weather stations they checked all the

784
00:32:05,570 --> 00:32:03,539
radio stations I believe uh James

785
00:32:07,789 --> 00:32:05,580
MacDonald was an atmospheric scientist

786
00:32:09,889 --> 00:32:07,799
correct example you might know that yes

787
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,899
he was he was pretty adamant that there

788
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:11,760
were no thunderstorms

789
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:14,399
um it may have been Misty and humid out

790
00:32:18,409 --> 00:32:16,980
in overcast but no storms were in the

791
00:32:21,130 --> 00:32:18,419
area

792
00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:21,140
um kind of insinuating that

793
00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:23,460
the the weather wasn't conducive for

794
00:32:27,710 --> 00:32:25,080
ball lightning

795
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:27,720
and you kind of have two camps here uh

796
00:32:30,649 --> 00:32:29,460
and a lot of people disagreeing over the

797
00:32:32,930 --> 00:32:30,659
weather

798
00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:32,940
um still can't get an accurate

799
00:32:36,409 --> 00:32:35,220
the readout on what the weather was like

800
00:32:38,810 --> 00:32:36,419
that night

801
00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:38,820
so there's that

802
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:40,799
knowing uh something about ball

803
00:32:47,570 --> 00:32:44,640
lightning I can comment that modern uh

804
00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:47,580
peer-reviewed papers do site that all

805
00:32:52,130 --> 00:32:49,020
lightning is

806
00:32:54,350 --> 00:32:52,140
in some uh one uh paper that is uh by a

807
00:32:56,330 --> 00:32:54,360
doctor of psychology who interviewed a

808
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,340
bunch of airline pilots 10 of the events

809
00:33:00,649 --> 00:32:59,039
are in thunderstorm independent

810
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,659
um right the UK Ministry of Defense

811
00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:02,640
report about the UFOs being ball

812
00:33:06,529 --> 00:33:04,860
lightning is says that there was a

813
00:33:10,190 --> 00:33:06,539
thunderstorm independent

814
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:10,200
the peer review paper in 2016 that

815
00:33:15,649 --> 00:33:13,200
summarizes the past research on light

816
00:33:17,810 --> 00:33:15,659
phenomena in hezdoll in Norway with uh

817
00:33:20,570 --> 00:33:17,820
similar characteristics including being

818
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:20,580
bred uh loaf shaped uh through many

819
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:22,559
decades says that they're thunderstorm

820
00:33:27,769 --> 00:33:25,440
Independence so um now we have some

821
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,779
evidence in the modern day but it's

822
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:29,519
quite interesting that

823
00:33:33,649 --> 00:33:32,640
what you're saying in 57 the Air Force

824
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:33,659
was

825
00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:35,700
leading with this explanation that even

826
00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:38,700
now is not verified except for through

827
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:41,220
Modern eyewitness reports of light

828
00:33:46,909 --> 00:33:44,820
phenomena that are associated with the

829
00:33:49,850 --> 00:33:46,919
um science of ball lightning like

830
00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:49,860
phenomena yeah and in fact uh later in

831
00:33:54,649 --> 00:33:51,480
the blue book report they even say here

832
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:54,659
uh no definite conclusion has been uh

833
00:33:58,850 --> 00:33:56,220
reached regarding the possible effects

834
00:34:01,610 --> 00:33:58,860
of ball lightning on ignition systems um

835
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:01,620
another explanation that they throughout

836
00:34:06,889 --> 00:34:05,039
there was a wet electrical circuits in

837
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:06,899
the cars

838
00:34:09,889 --> 00:34:07,860
um

839
00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:09,899
what I think

840
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,780
no sorry there's other ideas and I'll

841
00:34:17,450 --> 00:34:14,879
keep going through them but even Blue

842
00:34:20,210 --> 00:34:17,460
Book who did posit the ball lightning

843
00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:20,220
thing understandably wrote that yeah we

844
00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:22,260
can't actually conclusively say that

845
00:34:29,389 --> 00:34:23,940
ball lightning can even do this to

846
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:31,070
um sorry just about the meteorology

847
00:34:34,430 --> 00:34:32,159
again

848
00:34:37,129 --> 00:34:34,440
um do you necessarily need thunderstorms

849
00:34:38,990 --> 00:34:37,139
to create tornadoes of um appreciable

850
00:34:40,369 --> 00:34:39,000
size which could potentially have

851
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:40,379
electrical

852
00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:42,000
because here in the cottonmeyer article

853
00:34:45,230 --> 00:34:43,560
it says it should be noted that

854
00:34:46,669 --> 00:34:45,240
electrical and luminous effects are

855
00:34:49,010 --> 00:34:46,679
sometimes observed in nocturnal

856
00:34:51,470 --> 00:34:49,020
tornadoes

857
00:34:52,970 --> 00:34:51,480
that I think that's a that's a fairly

858
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:52,980
rare phenomena right

859
00:34:59,690 --> 00:34:57,359
nocturnal luminous yes I don't know

860
00:35:01,070 --> 00:34:59,700
um I that wouldn't I'm not the person to

861
00:35:02,870 --> 00:35:01,080
ask

862
00:35:05,450 --> 00:35:02,880
it's it's another one out there and just

863
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:05,460
like the tour uh

864
00:35:11,329 --> 00:35:08,160
the torrid meteor shower which does take

865
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:11,339
place uh around that time however nearly

866
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:14,400
everyone is unanimous about uh it being

867
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:16,280
overcast that night

868
00:35:20,210 --> 00:35:18,000
now

869
00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:20,220
um I'm sorry what is it what is it

870
00:35:23,089 --> 00:35:21,300
called when they when they burn up in

871
00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:23,099
the atmosphere is it a bromide

872
00:35:28,609 --> 00:35:25,500
is that what I'm oh

873
00:35:29,870 --> 00:35:28,619
for uh meteors yeah bullied bullied

874
00:35:31,970 --> 00:35:29,880
bullied

875
00:35:34,490 --> 00:35:31,980
could could a bullet have been burning

876
00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:34,500
you know above the cloud cover and it

877
00:35:40,190 --> 00:35:37,560
looked like a glowing orb possibly could

878
00:35:42,109 --> 00:35:40,200
that be what the uh the police were

879
00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:42,119
seeing when they were seeing flashes and

880
00:35:44,450 --> 00:35:43,140
streaks

881
00:35:47,089 --> 00:35:44,460
possibly

882
00:35:48,589 --> 00:35:47,099
it's another thing to consider

883
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:48,599
um I know that I know that the the

884
00:35:51,950 --> 00:35:50,700
toroid meteor shower uh the peak of that

885
00:35:53,050 --> 00:35:51,960
kind of changes

886
00:35:53,690 --> 00:35:53,060
throughout the years

887
00:35:54,890 --> 00:35:53,700
[Music]

888
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:54,900
um

889
00:35:59,390 --> 00:35:57,599
it's it's definitely a possibility

890
00:36:01,490 --> 00:35:59,400
I I could note too that uh ball

891
00:36:03,410 --> 00:36:01,500
lightning is an extraordinarily rare

892
00:36:05,870 --> 00:36:03,420
phenomenon from what we know and

893
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:05,880
therefore like any time somebody reports

894
00:36:11,390 --> 00:36:08,760
what uh could be ball lightning without

895
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:11,400
like conclusive verification it is

896
00:36:16,430 --> 00:36:13,920
almost certain to not be ball lightning

897
00:36:20,329 --> 00:36:16,440
right and so that's an interesting uh

898
00:36:22,490 --> 00:36:20,339
reality of an extremely rare phenomenon

899
00:36:24,770 --> 00:36:22,500
fascinating so this was another

900
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:24,780
conclusion from the blue book report the

901
00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:26,400
storm stimulated the populace into a

902
00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:27,900
high level excitement the excitement

903
00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:30,300
reflected itself in the reactions to

904
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:32,460
ordinary circumstances and resulted in

905
00:36:35,329 --> 00:36:33,960
the inflation of the stories of

906
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:35,339
something witnessed concerning their

907
00:36:39,170 --> 00:36:37,440
experiences now a little bit earlier I

908
00:36:40,190 --> 00:36:39,180
was talking about um in that newspaper

909
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:40,200
that I was picking up one of the

910
00:36:47,630 --> 00:36:43,200
previous cases a lot of uh Cold War

911
00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:47,640
paranoia now Sputnik 2 I believe was

912
00:36:53,390 --> 00:36:50,760
launched the day before the day before a

913
00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:53,400
couple days before this level inciting

914
00:36:57,890 --> 00:36:56,040
and also in the papers uh very similar

915
00:37:00,290 --> 00:36:57,900
to what I was reading um there were

916
00:37:04,190 --> 00:37:00,300
stories going around of Sputnik uh

917
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:04,200
opening closing people's garage doors

918
00:37:08,690 --> 00:37:06,900
um like I mentioned there's that that uh

919
00:37:12,589 --> 00:37:08,700
that story about

920
00:37:14,990 --> 00:37:12,599
communist satellites uh hijacking TV and

921
00:37:16,370 --> 00:37:15,000
all of our Communications so this stuff

922
00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:16,380
is on people's mind this is being

923
00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:18,180
recorded in newspapers

924
00:37:23,089 --> 00:37:20,940
you know currently as these sightings

925
00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:23,099
are taking place that is so interesting

926
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:25,140
to hear that uh because it doesn't that

927
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:27,900
remind well it reminds me almost of uh

928
00:37:32,089 --> 00:37:30,480
the aerial school and how uh often

929
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:32,099
people will say like oh these are people

930
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:33,599
who are isolated and stuff and then you

931
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:35,520
look into it and you see that there was

932
00:37:42,170 --> 00:37:39,119
a significant uh satellite re-entry

933
00:37:44,329 --> 00:37:42,180
event over the region to preceding uh

934
00:37:45,950 --> 00:37:44,339
day and every channel was talking about

935
00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:45,960
like UFOs and stuff because of those

936
00:37:49,970 --> 00:37:48,000
sightings exactly very significant right

937
00:37:52,849 --> 00:37:49,980
yeah yeah and I'm gonna as I'm gonna

938
00:37:54,770 --> 00:37:52,859
show there's there's more to it than

939
00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:54,780
that and there was there was kind of a

940
00:37:58,910 --> 00:37:56,820
a subconscious idea building

941
00:38:00,770 --> 00:37:58,920
right and Lewis knows what I'm about to

942
00:38:03,050 --> 00:38:00,780
get into

943
00:38:04,670 --> 00:38:03,060
um this actually isn't the earliest and

944
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:04,680
this is cut out

945
00:38:10,849 --> 00:38:07,200
um I wonder if I can make it smaller the

946
00:38:14,210 --> 00:38:10,859
idea the concept of a a ray or shutting

947
00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:14,220
down engines from a far dates back to I

948
00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:16,220
think the late 20s

949
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,839
first you started seeing it in plays in

950
00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:20,640
pulps and they were done by you know mad

951
00:38:26,089 --> 00:38:23,160
scientists using Rays I think the first

952
00:38:28,370 --> 00:38:26,099
time I think the first time it's ever

953
00:38:30,170 --> 00:38:28,380
associated with flying saucers was this

954
00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:30,180
book

955
00:38:34,370 --> 00:38:32,040
um though the concept conveniently

956
00:38:36,770 --> 00:38:34,380
titled the Flying Saucer okay so this is

957
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:36,780
a spy novel this is about uh

958
00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:38,160
essentially the saucers were super

959
00:38:44,810 --> 00:38:43,320
weapons in this but um there's in Luis

960
00:38:46,250 --> 00:38:44,820
you have the article open there were

961
00:38:47,569 --> 00:38:46,260
some articles in the New York Times

962
00:38:49,849 --> 00:38:47,579
about

963
00:38:54,829 --> 00:38:52,670
I want to say uh an Italian General

964
00:38:57,790 --> 00:38:54,839
the name is escaping now are you

965
00:39:00,829 --> 00:38:57,800
thinking of um the um

966
00:39:02,030 --> 00:39:00,839
Marconi was involved he was a was he a

967
00:39:14,349 --> 00:39:02,040
general as well because he was a

968
00:39:21,890 --> 00:39:18,290
uh again kind of these like uh paranoid

969
00:39:24,170 --> 00:39:21,900
propagandist news articles about uh the

970
00:39:25,370 --> 00:39:24,180
enemy developing crazy technology I

971
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:25,380
think there are some follow-up articles

972
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,560
saying that the US is now uh creating a

973
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:30,960
like a plating for all their planes that

974
00:39:36,109 --> 00:39:34,380
that can um deflect this Ray he's being

975
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:36,119
a little Coy about it in news articles

976
00:39:44,329 --> 00:39:41,280
so like the concept of a engine stopping

977
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:44,339
Force this existed in our pop culture in

978
00:39:49,730 --> 00:39:48,240
the States since late 20s early 30s it

979
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:49,740
isn't until a little later that you

980
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,380
start seeing it come into

981
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:54,480
um the same realm as flying saucers and

982
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:57,359
Aliens now closer to the level in

983
00:40:01,730 --> 00:39:59,280
sightings you have

984
00:40:04,490 --> 00:40:01,740
uh Bruce Gentry Daredevil of the Skies

985
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:04,500
uh chapter 7 the flying disc again

986
00:40:10,130 --> 00:40:07,680
uh super weapon flying saucers using an

987
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:10,140
engine stopping Ray to crash planes you

988
00:40:13,730 --> 00:40:12,000
got The Day the Earth Stood Still where

989
00:40:16,910 --> 00:40:13,740
klatchy comes down and shuts off all the

990
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:16,920
electricity in uh in the city and very

991
00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:18,720
similar War of the Worlds I watched this

992
00:40:23,150 --> 00:40:21,540
last night actually the 1953 version

993
00:40:24,829 --> 00:40:23,160
um as soon as the

994
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:24,839
the Cobra thing comes out of there and

995
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:26,760
starts firing its Ray all the

996
00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:28,200
electricity goes out and people's

997
00:40:35,150 --> 00:40:31,020
watches are magnetized so it's often

998
00:40:37,069 --> 00:40:35,160
associated with uh electromagnetism but

999
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:37,079
we're seeing this you know in pop

1000
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:39,960
culture in kind of the Zeitgeist for a

1001
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:42,079
long time now

1002
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,540
to these uh these vehicle interference

1003
00:40:49,849 --> 00:40:48,480
sightings and when I call out a quick

1004
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:49,859
comment but from the earth here the

1005
00:40:53,329 --> 00:40:51,599
cultural representation is just as

1006
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:53,339
important a lot of times it can feed

1007
00:40:56,450 --> 00:40:55,440
into how people report sightings like in

1008
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:56,460
a flap

1009
00:41:02,270 --> 00:40:59,760
right so and we've talked about this

1010
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:02,280
before or at least I have where

1011
00:41:07,370 --> 00:41:06,180
um kind of like the UFO folklore is kind

1012
00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:07,380
of uh

1013
00:41:11,870 --> 00:41:09,300
like a cultural habit or a Superstition

1014
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:11,880
that people kind of adopt so you're

1015
00:41:17,150 --> 00:41:15,359
driving at night in your car stalls and

1016
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,160
you see something strange in this guy

1017
00:41:21,589 --> 00:41:20,160
you connect these two and that that was

1018
00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:21,599
that elephant in the room that I

1019
00:41:24,050 --> 00:41:22,680
mentioned at the beginning that we were

1020
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,060
kind of kind of ignored throughout this

1021
00:41:28,849 --> 00:41:26,160
presentation is

1022
00:41:31,069 --> 00:41:28,859
there's no causal link determined here

1023
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:31,079
you know what I mean we can't determine

1024
00:41:37,550 --> 00:41:34,140
that any luminous object you see in your

1025
00:41:39,109 --> 00:41:37,560
sky and your car dying are connected

1026
00:41:40,849 --> 00:41:39,119
right or we can't with any of the

1027
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:40,859
information collected in these cases

1028
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:44,160
there's no causal link very similar to

1029
00:41:48,890 --> 00:41:45,839
um what we talked about in the in the

1030
00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:48,900
last year recap with those um UFOs and

1031
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:51,060
biological effects uh that document

1032
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,280
released by The Pentagon

1033
00:41:57,410 --> 00:41:55,680
um again determining a causal link

1034
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:57,420
between these things and

1035
00:42:01,550 --> 00:41:59,280
requires a whole lot more than just

1036
00:42:02,329 --> 00:42:01,560
anecdotal stories

1037
00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:02,339
um

1038
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:04,500
so I mean this is this is kind of the

1039
00:42:09,470 --> 00:42:07,260
end of my slides where where I've come

1040
00:42:12,770 --> 00:42:09,480
um looking at vehicle interference cases

1041
00:42:15,710 --> 00:42:12,780
I think that again it's it's kind of

1042
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:15,720
like a Superstition I think it's a

1043
00:42:21,290 --> 00:42:18,480
it also illustrates kind of how this UFO

1044
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:21,300
narrative grows over time uh gains

1045
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,760
different characteristics

1046
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,920
um to the point that we see this in

1047
00:42:28,010 --> 00:42:27,359
movie and TV

1048
00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:28,020
um

1049
00:42:32,690 --> 00:42:30,839
Close Encounters was directly inspired

1050
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,700
by Levelland

1051
00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:34,560
um you see this this type of thing in

1052
00:42:39,290 --> 00:42:36,780
The X-Files and in fact I told you guys

1053
00:42:40,970 --> 00:42:39,300
this story I was I think it was 2015

1054
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:40,980
2016 I was driving home on the highway

1055
00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:43,680
and my um my alternator died and it

1056
00:42:47,390 --> 00:42:45,780
caused all my gauges to flip around and

1057
00:42:48,589 --> 00:42:47,400
all the electronics went out and my

1058
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:48,599
engine died and I pulled off the road

1059
00:42:55,069 --> 00:42:52,140
and I looked outside for a UFO I like I

1060
00:42:56,810 --> 00:42:55,079
looked up partially joking what my mind

1061
00:43:00,290 --> 00:42:56,820
made that connection right it's part of

1062
00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:00,300
the lore now it's it's a characteristic

1063
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:01,920
of UFOs

1064
00:43:06,650 --> 00:43:04,800
and it it's interesting that when you

1065
00:43:09,290 --> 00:43:06,660
look back at how this started and how it

1066
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:09,300
kind of got added onto this folklore it

1067
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,280
was really based on

1068
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:13,440
a bunch of stories

1069
00:43:19,250 --> 00:43:17,520
um some fictional some uh some reaching

1070
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:19,260
and it kind of brings me back to that

1071
00:43:24,170 --> 00:43:20,760
quote I began it with

1072
00:43:26,750 --> 00:43:24,180
where you have uh non-events that get

1073
00:43:28,370 --> 00:43:26,760
into the hand of eager ufologists who

1074
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:28,380
you know I understand what they're

1075
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,000
trying to do they're trying to bring a

1076
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:32,400
level of like physical science and data

1077
00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:37,020
collection to ufology but I think uh

1078
00:43:39,530 --> 00:43:38,220
sometimes you go a little too far

1079
00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:39,540
sometimes you push a little too hard to

1080
00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:42,420
make pieces fit and that's where I Come

1081
00:43:46,569 --> 00:43:44,940
Away with vehicle interference

1082
00:43:48,650 --> 00:43:46,579
honestly

1083
00:43:51,170 --> 00:43:48,660
like have you heard of any of these

1084
00:43:54,050 --> 00:43:51,180
these cases before or

1085
00:43:56,510 --> 00:43:54,060
I mean I just think a a completely agree

1086
00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:56,520
where we have these electromagnetic

1087
00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:59,040
disruptions that's what they keep they

1088
00:44:01,670 --> 00:44:00,900
keep kind of mentally categorizing them

1089
00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:01,680
as

1090
00:44:07,550 --> 00:44:06,060
UFO encounters we see it like you

1091
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:07,560
mentioned in Close Encounters of the

1092
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:12,240
Third Kind we see it in reports of um

1093
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:16,079
missile silo interference from UFOs

1094
00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:19,140
um obviously Vehicles here

1095
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:20,760
um and to me when I hear this

1096
00:44:24,890 --> 00:44:23,220
intuitively all I keep thinking is this

1097
00:44:27,470 --> 00:44:24,900
is these are the classic Hallmarks of

1098
00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:27,480
electromagnetic disruption particularly

1099
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:29,220
in cases where they're also talking

1100
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:31,440
about radio interference and disruption

1101
00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:34,560
because em forces it will disrupt radio

1102
00:44:39,410 --> 00:44:37,140
signal propagation right

1103
00:44:43,849 --> 00:44:39,420
but there's also so much heterogeneity

1104
00:44:45,710 --> 00:44:43,859
in the in the uh in the um cases like I

1105
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,720
think as you mentioned um some of them

1106
00:44:49,730 --> 00:44:47,280
have to do with radio interference

1107
00:44:50,750 --> 00:44:49,740
others have to do with disrupting the

1108
00:44:53,329 --> 00:44:50,760
engine

1109
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,339
and um so like different subsystems are

1110
00:44:58,069 --> 00:44:55,680
being affected yes there's also the

1111
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,079
issue like how much I think like um he

1112
00:45:03,490 --> 00:45:00,480
cites somebody who calculated that you

1113
00:45:06,589 --> 00:45:03,500
need like many kilogaus of um

1114
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:06,599
electromagnetic energy to

1115
00:45:11,630 --> 00:45:09,839
um you know shut down spark plugs I

1116
00:45:13,849 --> 00:45:11,640
don't have a modern cars are different

1117
00:45:15,770 --> 00:45:13,859
but um right that was kind of a

1118
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,780
stumbling block when looking at this is

1119
00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:17,520
not only am I not a car guy but I

1120
00:45:24,109 --> 00:45:21,180
certainly don't know cars from 1957.

1121
00:45:26,089 --> 00:45:24,119
um interestingly though uh colloquially

1122
00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:26,099
known as the Condon report they tested

1123
00:45:30,410 --> 00:45:28,500
two instances of vehicle interference

1124
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:30,420
um they did something called magnetic

1125
00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:33,660
mapping where I think the kind of the

1126
00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:36,119
concept of it is if you do work on metal

1127
00:45:41,450 --> 00:45:39,000
it kind of um

1128
00:45:44,329 --> 00:45:41,460
it kind of picks up the magnetic poles

1129
00:45:46,970 --> 00:45:44,339
from the earth so if uh this worked

1130
00:45:49,609 --> 00:45:46,980
metal on a car frame for instance like a

1131
00:45:52,490 --> 00:45:49,619
hood that's been pressed in a die if it

1132
00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:52,500
came into contact with a large magnetic

1133
00:45:58,010 --> 00:45:55,500
field uh that you know large enough to

1134
00:45:59,150 --> 00:45:58,020
actually affect the car's ignition

1135
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:59,160
system

1136
00:46:02,569 --> 00:46:00,960
it would kind of show that so they did

1137
00:46:04,970 --> 00:46:02,579
some uh mapping in Dearborn Michigan

1138
00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:04,980
actually one of the Ford factories and

1139
00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:06,420
found

1140
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:08,940
um in both instances uh it was a broken

1141
00:46:12,410 --> 00:46:10,440
radio antenna

1142
00:46:14,089 --> 00:46:12,420
um gradual wear to the batteries and

1143
00:46:16,430 --> 00:46:14,099
just uh gradual

1144
00:46:17,809 --> 00:46:16,440
deterioration of a car from driving in

1145
00:46:20,329 --> 00:46:17,819
both cases

1146
00:46:22,190 --> 00:46:20,339
um while they weren't spectacular cases

1147
00:46:24,290 --> 00:46:22,200
as far as like vehicle interference goes

1148
00:46:27,410 --> 00:46:24,300
I think there was just you know seeing

1149
00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:27,420
an object and getting static in one case

1150
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,980
and then the other one I believe the

1151
00:46:34,849 --> 00:46:30,240
battery died

1152
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:34,859
so maybe not the best cases to look at

1153
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:35,760
um

1154
00:46:40,430 --> 00:46:38,160
but there's also the the fact that many

1155
00:46:42,410 --> 00:46:40,440
people or some people have um reported a

1156
00:46:44,569 --> 00:46:42,420
UFO that they thought had

1157
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:44,579
interfered with their vehicle and it

1158
00:46:48,770 --> 00:46:46,500
turned out that the object was just like

1159
00:46:50,930 --> 00:46:48,780
the moon or Venus yeah they were able to

1160
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:50,940
track like where it was in the sky yeah

1161
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:53,280
there was a number of cases like that so

1162
00:46:58,130 --> 00:46:55,800
like yeah you're kind of your premise

1163
00:47:01,309 --> 00:46:58,140
gets taken the rug gets pulled out from

1164
00:47:04,849 --> 00:47:01,319
under it if people are so um able to be

1165
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,859
tricked by the moon or Venus then all

1166
00:47:08,569 --> 00:47:07,200
the other cases which purport to be

1167
00:47:10,730 --> 00:47:08,579
flying sources or something

1168
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:10,740
extraordinary are automatically called

1169
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:13,920
into a you know into question right you

1170
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:15,660
know what what that brings to mind a

1171
00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:20,160
couple years ago there was a report that

1172
00:47:25,490 --> 00:47:22,380
someone had found

1173
00:47:27,710 --> 00:47:25,500
uh living thylacine right like the

1174
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:27,720
Tasmanian Tiger which has been extinct

1175
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:30,000
for a long long time

1176
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:33,420
and it when I was reading about the

1177
00:47:37,849 --> 00:47:35,760
probability of an actual silacine being

1178
00:47:39,890 --> 00:47:37,859
located there was this really thoughtful

1179
00:47:42,890 --> 00:47:39,900
article I came across that basically

1180
00:47:45,710 --> 00:47:42,900
said that the average person is so

1181
00:47:47,690 --> 00:47:45,720
dissociated from the natural world they

1182
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:47,700
very very rarely encounter or engage

1183
00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:51,599
with anything like any kind of

1184
00:47:59,569 --> 00:47:53,839
fauna so like

1185
00:48:02,990 --> 00:48:00,950
um

1186
00:48:05,150 --> 00:48:03,000
frequently don't have the best judgment

1187
00:48:07,010 --> 00:48:05,160
about what they're seeing or what it

1188
00:48:08,809 --> 00:48:07,020
actually implies and it doesn't mean

1189
00:48:11,089 --> 00:48:08,819
they're stupid it just threatens you

1190
00:48:13,609 --> 00:48:11,099
know that they're you know like I I

1191
00:48:15,170 --> 00:48:13,619
there are coyotes in Central Park and I

1192
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,180
guaran [\h__\h] to you that the cops

1193
00:48:19,069 --> 00:48:16,800
there get cause all the time about the

1194
00:48:21,710 --> 00:48:19,079
wolves in the Park oh sure even though

1195
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,720
coyote is sort of look like wolves I

1196
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:23,040
guess but they're very very different

1197
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:25,200
but my point that I'm getting at is that

1198
00:48:32,510 --> 00:48:30,480
like a like people who are not

1199
00:48:34,069 --> 00:48:32,520
um immersed in the natural world in any

1200
00:48:35,630 --> 00:48:34,079
meaningful sense and have no kind of

1201
00:48:38,809 --> 00:48:35,640
heuristics for assessing what they're

1202
00:48:42,170 --> 00:48:38,819
seeing or how it behaves are I think

1203
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:42,180
particularly prone to

1204
00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:45,359
um overshoot on what they see in the

1205
00:48:50,750 --> 00:48:46,920
natural world and assume some kind of

1206
00:48:52,970 --> 00:48:50,760
paranormal or strange significance to it

1207
00:48:55,130 --> 00:48:52,980
uh to answer Vancouver guys question in

1208
00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:55,140
the chat yeah I can I can post uh the

1209
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:57,720
links to all the resources I found

1210
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:59,520
um maybe in the show notes or in the

1211
00:49:03,230 --> 00:49:01,200
Discord or something like that uh

1212
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,240
there's there's there is a lot of good

1213
00:49:08,030 --> 00:49:05,760
documentation out there

1214
00:49:10,550 --> 00:49:08,040
um a lot of it uh just kind of borrows

1215
00:49:12,890 --> 00:49:10,560
from itself and you run into issues kind

1216
00:49:15,650 --> 00:49:12,900
of like that uh that valet story we've

1217
00:49:17,210 --> 00:49:15,660
found though so but even like think

1218
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:17,220
about dude think about your reporting on

1219
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:19,440
the Hudson Valley case where it's people

1220
00:49:23,809 --> 00:49:21,359
use almost the exact same quotes and the

1221
00:49:25,970 --> 00:49:23,819
exact same paragraphs source to Source I

1222
00:49:26,950 --> 00:49:25,980
mean and like when we look at like the

1223
00:49:29,329 --> 00:49:26,960
repeated

1224
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:29,339
I mean we call it flaps but I always

1225
00:49:33,530 --> 00:49:30,960
think of just the memetic nature of

1226
00:49:34,250 --> 00:49:33,540
these cases you know we have

1227
00:49:37,550 --> 00:49:34,260
um

1228
00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:37,560
who was it Pedro Newell and Ronald all

1229
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:40,260
making very similar reports

1230
00:49:43,490 --> 00:49:41,760
um and again this goes back to what

1231
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,500
we've talked about frequently on this

1232
00:49:48,109 --> 00:49:45,119
show about sort of the cultural

1233
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:48,119
Frameworks that people place over these

1234
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,359
experiences and then connects their

1235
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:53,520
experiences to these Frameworks you know

1236
00:49:57,650 --> 00:49:55,680
and they get shaped and informed by the

1237
00:50:01,210 --> 00:49:57,660
media or the social engagement or the

1238
00:50:03,770 --> 00:50:01,220
newspaper articles that they read Etc

1239
00:50:06,050 --> 00:50:03,780
yeah absolutely and like

1240
00:50:07,849 --> 00:50:06,060
there there was a lot going on back then

1241
00:50:11,089 --> 00:50:07,859
in people's minds you know what I mean

1242
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:11,099
we the we had the Cold War the Space

1243
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,020
Race you know Sputnik like I said had

1244
00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:15,359
just been launched um the papers were

1245
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:18,900
filled with odd propaganda apparently uh

1246
00:50:24,829 --> 00:50:21,119
that I found in my own search so yeah

1247
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,839
people uh people are having a tense time

1248
00:50:28,970 --> 00:50:26,880
seeing something they don't know and

1249
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,980
that that's the other thing and I I've

1250
00:50:35,089 --> 00:50:30,720
been accused of this a lot is uh

1251
00:50:36,890 --> 00:50:35,099
dismissing witness testimony and um I'd

1252
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:36,900
like to push back on that I don't at all

1253
00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:38,700
otherwise we wouldn't be here a lot of

1254
00:50:42,770 --> 00:50:41,160
this is built on this testimony I just

1255
00:50:44,510 --> 00:50:42,780
think that it only speaks to their

1256
00:50:45,470 --> 00:50:44,520
interpretation and events like kind of

1257
00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:45,480
like what you were talking about just

1258
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:46,880
now Leah

1259
00:50:52,190 --> 00:50:49,920
people's interpretations of reality and

1260
00:50:54,349 --> 00:50:52,200
objective reality don't always mix up

1261
00:50:56,270 --> 00:50:54,359
but it it it's somewhere to start and

1262
00:50:59,329 --> 00:50:56,280
it's something to uh

1263
00:51:01,370 --> 00:50:59,339
kind of Riff Off of I suppose so no I

1264
00:51:03,950 --> 00:51:01,380
don't I don't dismiss these accounts and

1265
00:51:05,870 --> 00:51:03,960
I all the witnesses that I mentioned in

1266
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:05,880
here very likely although there was that

1267
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:08,160
rumor of one of the hoaxes I'm sure they

1268
00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:10,559
all believed this happened you know that

1269
00:51:14,089 --> 00:51:12,180
that's kind of their their conviction

1270
00:51:16,190 --> 00:51:14,099
after that is kind of what carries these

1271
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:16,200
stories along right

1272
00:51:21,410 --> 00:51:18,180
so what do you do

1273
00:51:23,150 --> 00:51:21,420
you know I also think too um

1274
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:23,160
it's been a while since I've brought up

1275
00:51:29,630 --> 00:51:26,880
that idea around invisible forces

1276
00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:29,640
entering popular life like radio and

1277
00:51:35,569 --> 00:51:32,099
electricity and that influencing

1278
00:51:39,049 --> 00:51:35,579
spiritualism and theosophy I'm sort of

1279
00:51:41,569 --> 00:51:39,059
reminded of the same thing where

1280
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:41,579
not that cars are super new at this

1281
00:51:47,390 --> 00:51:44,160
point but that kind of latent

1282
00:51:50,210 --> 00:51:47,400
undercurrent of neuroses or anxieties

1283
00:51:51,530 --> 00:51:50,220
about technological era I mean we've

1284
00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:51,540
specifically mentioned through the lens

1285
00:51:57,410 --> 00:51:54,180
of this cold war and sort of uh like

1286
00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:57,420
Soviet Espionage kind of anxiety but

1287
00:52:00,109 --> 00:51:58,680
even just

1288
00:52:01,609 --> 00:52:00,119
um

1289
00:52:03,609 --> 00:52:01,619
this is a time when people are

1290
00:52:06,490 --> 00:52:03,619
increasingly having access to television

1291
00:52:09,170 --> 00:52:06,500
radio in their cars versus radio at home

1292
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:09,180
access to more

1293
00:52:14,530 --> 00:52:13,200
um complex vehicles and then also

1294
00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:14,540
um

1295
00:52:19,069 --> 00:52:17,400
like I'm trying to think of what else is

1296
00:52:20,809 --> 00:52:19,079
going on around there like there's sort

1297
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:20,819
of to me it feels like this is a period

1298
00:52:25,010 --> 00:52:23,520
in particularly American history where

1299
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:25,020
people are confronting and integrating

1300
00:52:28,130 --> 00:52:26,520
technology and kind of new and

1301
00:52:30,170 --> 00:52:28,140
interesting ways that they hadn't

1302
00:52:32,270 --> 00:52:30,180
previously it's also after World War II

1303
00:52:34,490 --> 00:52:32,280
so we have the atomic bomb we have sort

1304
00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:34,500
of the nuclear age in general

1305
00:52:37,069 --> 00:52:35,160
um

1306
00:52:42,010 --> 00:52:37,079
and I would imagine all of that too

1307
00:52:44,990 --> 00:52:42,020
influences the association between

1308
00:52:47,150 --> 00:52:45,000
mystery and Technology not quite working

1309
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,160
as expected

1310
00:52:51,849 --> 00:52:49,680
well let me go uh just from what you

1311
00:52:54,650 --> 00:52:51,859
were just talking about into a slightly

1312
00:52:56,930 --> 00:52:54,660
Dr uh Health David Halper and Direction

1313
00:52:58,849 --> 00:52:56,940
here please because what I was just

1314
00:53:01,670 --> 00:52:58,859
thinking about was that as you were

1315
00:53:03,589 --> 00:53:01,680
mentioning the nuclear age well nuclear

1316
00:53:05,150 --> 00:53:03,599
weapons are new to the scene and the

1317
00:53:08,809 --> 00:53:05,160
public knows that they're being tested

1318
00:53:10,609 --> 00:53:08,819
in uh you know above ground with you

1319
00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:10,619
know Reckless abandon

1320
00:53:17,150 --> 00:53:14,460
a novel effect of nuclear bombs is a

1321
00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:17,160
electromagnetic pulse that cancels your

1322
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,440
power that's rather interesting and then

1323
00:53:22,730 --> 00:53:21,359
if you look at a I mean they're

1324
00:53:24,109 --> 00:53:22,740
underlying things that I could talk

1325
00:53:28,490 --> 00:53:24,119
about but I won't but if you look at a

1326
00:53:31,010 --> 00:53:28,500
mushroom cloud you have a uh

1327
00:53:33,290 --> 00:53:31,020
object that looks like a disc with a

1328
00:53:35,390 --> 00:53:33,300
line down off the bottom don't you and

1329
00:53:37,790 --> 00:53:35,400
it's not interesting and that's the

1330
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:37,800
place where the power goes out and when

1331
00:53:41,690 --> 00:53:39,200
you yeah

1332
00:53:43,790 --> 00:53:41,700
uh something you distinguish though when

1333
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:43,800
you when you lose power from an EMP

1334
00:53:48,290 --> 00:53:46,800
you're an electromagnetic pulse uh the

1335
00:53:50,809 --> 00:53:48,300
circuits are fried and you they don't

1336
00:53:52,430 --> 00:53:50,819
start up again afterwards

1337
00:53:55,549 --> 00:53:52,440
but I mean what's that common knowledge

1338
00:53:57,230 --> 00:53:55,559
at the time who knows where these are

1339
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:57,240
based off of like kind of the

1340
00:54:02,089 --> 00:53:58,800
subconscious things the public has been

1341
00:54:10,390 --> 00:54:02,099
picking up for decades now on top of all

1342
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,069
it was only that it was in the mind of

1343
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,599
the people absolutely I think I think

1344
00:54:21,049 --> 00:54:17,760
all of that plays a huge factor into

1345
00:54:23,870 --> 00:54:21,059
this kind of you know new feature of

1346
00:54:26,329 --> 00:54:23,880
UFOs and I mean like the the vehicle

1347
00:54:29,450 --> 00:54:26,339
interference kind of concept rolled into

1348
00:54:32,690 --> 00:54:29,460
the abduction phenomenon another kind of

1349
00:54:34,670 --> 00:54:32,700
uh added attribute of UFO experiences

1350
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:34,680
kind of came up next but vehicle

1351
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:35,819
interference plays a part in that

1352
00:54:39,410 --> 00:54:36,960
because uh

1353
00:54:40,910 --> 00:54:39,420
Betty and Barney Hill I believe uh

1354
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:40,920
experienced some form of vehicle

1355
00:54:46,250 --> 00:54:43,440
interference where they um

1356
00:54:47,690 --> 00:54:46,260
I think they there were spots on their

1357
00:54:49,730 --> 00:54:47,700
car that looked like they were polished

1358
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:49,740
down little circles they heard beeps and

1359
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:50,880
I believe that

1360
00:54:56,270 --> 00:54:53,040
didn't it didn't it uh stall their car

1361
00:54:58,370 --> 00:54:56,280
out the the saucer that they saw

1362
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:58,380
I'd have to go back and read again I

1363
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:59,760
have to go back and look but I think

1364
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:01,920
you're right

1365
00:55:06,650 --> 00:55:04,079
I'm pretty sure and and like I said now

1366
00:55:09,950 --> 00:55:06,660
these uh these aspects become

1367
00:55:11,390 --> 00:55:09,960
just parts of the UFO storyline even

1368
00:55:14,650 --> 00:55:11,400
abduction although that's kind of died

1369
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:14,660
off now I'm not really sure

1370
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:17,760
uh abduction cases involve vehicle

1371
00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:19,920
interference because presumably the

1372
00:55:24,109 --> 00:55:22,200
aliens want to kidnap somebody they

1373
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:24,119
would direct like a you know directed

1374
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:25,680
energy towards the vehicle that they

1375
00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:27,780
want to disable but um

1376
00:55:32,329 --> 00:55:31,260
if it's due to the electromagnetic

1377
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:32,339
um

1378
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:35,040
just a side effect of the vehicle's

1379
00:55:40,130 --> 00:55:36,720
reactor or something like its power

1380
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:40,140
source that it should as cotmaya says it

1381
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,000
should um disable everything around it

1382
00:55:46,190 --> 00:55:44,640
not just right but like all the all the

1383
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:46,200
houses around in that neighborhood or

1384
00:55:51,770 --> 00:55:48,960
whatever should all be reporting that

1385
00:55:52,790 --> 00:55:51,780
they you know that their um lights went

1386
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,800
out or whatever

1387
00:55:56,990 --> 00:55:54,480
well when you when you kind of tighten

1388
00:55:58,490 --> 00:55:57,000
down on the aspects of it that like that

1389
00:56:01,609 --> 00:55:58,500
it kind of just turns into special

1390
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:01,619
pleading yeah you know like oh this UFO

1391
00:56:06,109 --> 00:56:03,839
can you know pinpoint the radio and turn

1392
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:06,119
it to next station or whatever turn off

1393
00:56:09,770 --> 00:56:07,440
the station but leave the engine running

1394
00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:09,780
or leave the headlights on this time and

1395
00:56:13,549 --> 00:56:12,180
it's magical thinking at the end of the

1396
00:56:16,970 --> 00:56:13,559
day

1397
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,980
um and like I said no causal

1398
00:56:21,890 --> 00:56:18,240
relationship between these two things

1399
00:56:23,809 --> 00:56:21,900
have written like succinctly concluded

1400
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:23,819
so I mean but it was definitely an

1401
00:56:27,470 --> 00:56:25,920
interesting case uh and I appreciated

1402
00:56:29,870 --> 00:56:27,480
the suggestion

1403
00:56:33,650 --> 00:56:29,880
um I'm sure that commenter isn't going

1404
00:56:36,349 --> 00:56:33,660
to be happy with what I turned on

1405
00:56:38,930 --> 00:56:36,359
oh what about like I'm sorry if we've

1406
00:56:40,730 --> 00:56:38,940
already covered this but um our vehicle

1407
00:56:43,309 --> 00:56:40,740
interference cases like still commonly

1408
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:43,319
reported I know we're talking we mostly

1409
00:56:47,630 --> 00:56:45,839
focused on level end but like are there

1410
00:56:50,510 --> 00:56:47,640
reports coming in now in the year of Our

1411
00:56:52,730 --> 00:56:50,520
Lord 2022 2023 that if all vehicle

1412
00:56:55,790 --> 00:56:52,740
interference I I ask specifically

1413
00:56:58,190 --> 00:56:55,800
because I mean the electronic systems

1414
00:57:00,829 --> 00:56:58,200
and cars have become substantially more

1415
00:57:02,630 --> 00:57:00,839
sophisticated and complex right like I

1416
00:57:04,849 --> 00:57:02,640
even think about like my first car I

1417
00:57:06,829 --> 00:57:04,859
could work on myself but like my current

1418
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:06,839
car even something like an oil change I

1419
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:08,400
still bring it to the dealership oh yeah

1420
00:57:11,210 --> 00:57:09,599
absolutely

1421
00:57:13,309 --> 00:57:11,220
um there's all these different systems

1422
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:13,319
that uh I personally don't want to touch

1423
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:15,839
it's pretty black box at this point and

1424
00:57:20,809 --> 00:57:18,660
it seems like we would have more of

1425
00:57:23,390 --> 00:57:20,819
these reports just given the sort of

1426
00:57:25,849 --> 00:57:23,400
electronics that are now woven into

1427
00:57:27,950 --> 00:57:25,859
modern vehicles compared to what we were

1428
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:27,960
seeing in the 40s and 50s in the

1429
00:57:33,290 --> 00:57:30,480
increasing amount of uh electric cars on

1430
00:57:35,569 --> 00:57:33,300
on the road right I mean maybe that dude

1431
00:57:37,490 --> 00:57:35,579
Maybe maybe it's not that Tesla's suck

1432
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:37,500
maybe it's UFOs kicking off that

1433
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:40,559
autopilot and just I I would be really

1434
00:57:44,990 --> 00:57:42,960
excited if we did get kind of another uh

1435
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,000
VI wave now especially that would be

1436
00:57:50,270 --> 00:57:48,000
cool yeah specifically targeting EVS too

1437
00:57:52,730 --> 00:57:50,280
oh I want to mention king milk cart

1438
00:57:56,450 --> 00:57:52,740
mentioned that uh the saucer landed in

1439
00:57:57,950 --> 00:57:56,460
front of them okay that's correct

1440
00:58:00,109 --> 00:57:57,960
um yeah that would that would be

1441
00:58:02,089 --> 00:58:00,119
interesting see I that's that's kind of

1442
00:58:04,609 --> 00:58:02,099
the fun thing is we we have these

1443
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:04,619
examples of how the UFO story can kind

1444
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,960
of like gain attributes it's kind of fun

1445
00:58:11,690 --> 00:58:08,880
to think about what the next ones might

1446
00:58:15,410 --> 00:58:11,700
be and maybe uh think of ways to kind of

1447
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:15,420
look out for it see uh new trends kind

1448
00:58:21,650 --> 00:58:18,720
of being added

1449
00:58:24,170 --> 00:58:21,660
right I mean Nick you I I go back

1450
00:58:27,230 --> 00:58:24,180
frequently to the point you've made on

1451
00:58:29,569 --> 00:58:27,240
these episodes about how

1452
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:29,579
the technology that people witness or

1453
00:58:34,430 --> 00:58:32,160
observe in these cases tends to just be

1454
00:58:36,829 --> 00:58:34,440
slightly outpacing the existing known

1455
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,839
Earth Technology right you know and I

1456
00:58:40,990 --> 00:58:38,880
mean this is why I think so much of the

1457
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:41,000
conversation around this subject has

1458
00:58:46,010 --> 00:58:43,680
transitioned to being about the numinous

1459
00:58:48,410 --> 00:58:46,020
or the metaphysical or the conscious or

1460
00:58:50,990 --> 00:58:48,420
Consciousness because in many respects

1461
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:51,000
that's kind of the Last Frontier for us

1462
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:53,280
in terms of mystery like we we

1463
00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:55,680
increasingly understand the physical

1464
00:58:59,630 --> 00:58:57,660
quote unquote physical Universe I'm not

1465
00:59:01,370 --> 00:58:59,640
saying to be clear I'm not

1466
00:59:06,349 --> 00:59:01,380
I don't necessarily agree with what I'm

1467
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:08,329
yeah but um there's something I'm sorry

1468
00:59:11,390 --> 00:59:09,599
about that

1469
00:59:14,750 --> 00:59:11,400
um I mean like the cases we're looking

1470
00:59:16,730 --> 00:59:14,760
at now uh any proponent of the eth would

1471
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:16,740
have probably guessed that these uh

1472
00:59:20,990 --> 00:59:18,480
these UFOs were coming from Mars or

1473
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:21,000
Venus right because we hadn't really I

1474
00:59:26,450 --> 00:59:22,799
mean we were just entering the Space Age

1475
00:59:28,069 --> 00:59:26,460
we didn't know as much as we know now

1476
00:59:29,690 --> 00:59:28,079
um we're seeing further and further out

1477
00:59:31,490 --> 00:59:29,700
so of course

1478
00:59:34,670 --> 00:59:31,500
ET is coming from further and further

1479
00:59:36,650 --> 00:59:34,680
away using uh new technology to you know

1480
00:59:39,410 --> 00:59:36,660
like FTL and stuff like that kind of as

1481
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:39,420
we come up with these Concepts ourselves

1482
00:59:43,130 --> 00:59:42,000
they've of course harnessed this

1483
00:59:44,750 --> 00:59:43,140
um

1484
00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:44,760
it's funny too because they're always

1485
00:59:49,130 --> 00:59:46,799
kind of uh they're always here to tell

1486
00:59:51,950 --> 00:59:49,140
us about our ways to like change your

1487
00:59:54,770 --> 00:59:51,960
ways or you're gonna die kind of the uh

1488
00:59:56,450 --> 00:59:54,780
the saviors that we all want to come in

1489
00:59:58,730 --> 00:59:56,460
to stop us from the nukes or the climate

1490
01:00:01,490 --> 00:59:58,740
change or things like that there's yeah

1491
01:00:04,430 --> 01:00:01,500
I I um I

1492
01:00:07,730 --> 01:00:04,440
invoked some Twitter wrath from UFO

1493
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:07,740
people about this but a continually

1494
01:00:14,690 --> 01:00:11,760
return to this notion of

1495
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:14,700
the Redemption Arc that's woven into a

1496
01:00:19,010 --> 01:00:16,799
lot of modern ufology it's a very kind

1497
01:00:20,210 --> 01:00:19,020
of Christian Redemption Arc too this is

1498
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:20,220
not the kind of stuff you hear in

1499
01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:21,660
Judaism

1500
01:00:26,809 --> 01:00:23,760
um or other religions but this idea that

1501
01:00:28,609 --> 01:00:26,819
there's this ineffable nearly omniscient

1502
01:00:30,170 --> 01:00:28,619
force that is going to save us from

1503
01:00:31,490 --> 01:00:30,180
ourselves

1504
01:00:34,250 --> 01:00:31,500
um

1505
01:00:36,049 --> 01:00:34,260
and I think that that kind of I mean

1506
01:00:37,549 --> 01:00:36,059
fingers crossed right we could

1507
01:00:38,990 --> 01:00:37,559
definitely use it that's that's for damn

1508
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:39,000
sure

1509
01:00:43,010 --> 01:00:40,559
um but that's also the impression I've

1510
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:43,020
always gotten when we hear about these

1511
01:00:47,690 --> 01:00:44,880
um these reports from nuclear silos

1512
01:00:50,089 --> 01:00:47,700
right that the the under text or the

1513
01:00:52,549 --> 01:00:50,099
sort of subtext there is this idea that

1514
01:00:54,289 --> 01:00:52,559
they are there are benevolent forces

1515
01:00:56,329 --> 01:00:54,299
that when push comes to shove will

1516
01:00:58,190 --> 01:00:56,339
directly interfere into the trajectory

1517
01:00:59,930 --> 01:00:58,200
of humanity in order to save us from

1518
01:01:01,309 --> 01:00:59,940
ourselves

1519
01:01:03,170 --> 01:01:01,319
um it sounds like people are just

1520
01:01:06,170 --> 01:01:03,180
displacing responsibility

1521
01:01:08,690 --> 01:01:06,180
right well is that the most natural

1522
01:01:11,089 --> 01:01:08,700
human instinct ever as we've discussed

1523
01:01:14,030 --> 01:01:11,099
previously looking up at the sky the

1524
01:01:15,890 --> 01:01:14,040
wandering Stars became the gods which we

1525
01:01:16,690 --> 01:01:15,900
then name you know the planets that they

1526
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:16,700
were

1527
01:01:21,170 --> 01:01:19,260
retributing uh you know life to the

1528
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:21,180
those things we're telling stories about

1529
01:01:26,030 --> 01:01:22,799
how they come down non-human

1530
01:01:28,910 --> 01:01:26,040
Intelligence coming down uh you know uh

1531
01:01:30,349 --> 01:01:28,920
creating a hybrids uh imparting

1532
01:01:33,230 --> 01:01:30,359
knowledge

1533
01:01:35,569 --> 01:01:33,240
um all of that's similar the imagery

1534
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:35,579
religious imagery has a beam of light

1535
01:01:38,930 --> 01:01:36,960
coming from the clouds and hitting

1536
01:01:41,650 --> 01:01:38,940
people in the head right and then the

1537
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:41,660
information download like these ideas

1538
01:01:46,910 --> 01:01:44,400
persist throughout history

1539
01:01:50,809 --> 01:01:46,920
um and an example I like a lot uh just

1540
01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:50,819
from this distinction where if you saw a

1541
01:01:55,609 --> 01:01:53,520
choir of angels flying across the sky in

1542
01:01:57,230 --> 01:01:55,619
the Middle Ages uh you know looking back

1543
01:01:59,089 --> 01:01:57,240
on that it'd be like well no Angels

1544
01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:59,099
don't we no evidence angels exist so

1545
01:02:02,569 --> 01:02:00,240
there's no evidence that they saw a

1546
01:02:05,150 --> 01:02:02,579
choir of angels but Fireball swarms are

1547
01:02:07,010 --> 01:02:05,160
now known to exist at a very uh close

1548
01:02:09,049 --> 01:02:07,020
trajectory mirroring the Earth's surface

1549
01:02:11,690 --> 01:02:09,059
they go very slowly in perfect cohesion

1550
01:02:14,569 --> 01:02:11,700
together across the sky so did somebody

1551
01:02:16,730 --> 01:02:14,579
see Angels like if somebody everybody

1552
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:16,740
you know or the entire you know world

1553
01:02:20,990 --> 01:02:19,200
was saying those are angels so you saw

1554
01:02:22,789 --> 01:02:21,000
angels like I mean did you see an angel

1555
01:02:24,410 --> 01:02:22,799
or not like there was a luminous object

1556
01:02:25,609 --> 01:02:24,420
that traveled in Houston across the sky

1557
01:02:27,890 --> 01:02:25,619
I mean then we get down into the

1558
01:02:29,569 --> 01:02:27,900
semantics don't we yeah yeah every

1559
01:02:31,069 --> 01:02:29,579
period of time has their own culture

1560
01:02:33,410 --> 01:02:31,079
colored glasses that we're seeing these

1561
01:02:35,030 --> 01:02:33,420
things through when natural phenomena is

1562
01:02:37,970 --> 01:02:35,040
taking place throughout our entire

1563
01:02:39,950 --> 01:02:37,980
history yeah yeah I mean it makes me

1564
01:02:41,630 --> 01:02:39,960
think of like uh the miracle of Fatima

1565
01:02:44,089 --> 01:02:41,640
right the miracle Fatima is in many

1566
01:02:45,950 --> 01:02:44,099
respects kind of the quintessential orb

1567
01:02:47,690 --> 01:02:45,960
sighting but through the process of

1568
01:02:50,569 --> 01:02:47,700
reduction in the Roman Catholic Church

1569
01:02:52,370 --> 01:02:50,579
it has sort of been transmuted into a

1570
01:02:53,870 --> 01:02:52,380
religious event and it was witnessed by

1571
01:02:55,250 --> 01:02:53,880
a lot of people like thousands and

1572
01:02:58,190 --> 01:02:55,260
thousands wait a lot of people saw this

1573
01:03:01,970 --> 01:02:58,200
yeah and it's extremely well documented

1574
01:03:03,890 --> 01:03:01,980
um and I mean like look this is uh

1575
01:03:05,809 --> 01:03:03,900
because this is the internet I have to

1576
01:03:07,430 --> 01:03:05,819
say this this is not me completely

1577
01:03:09,170 --> 01:03:07,440
supporting everything the Vatican a

1578
01:03:10,430 --> 01:03:09,180
Roman Catholic Church does but the Roman

1579
01:03:12,109 --> 01:03:10,440
Catholics interrogation and

1580
01:03:13,309 --> 01:03:12,119
investigation process on these kinds of

1581
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:13,319
events

1582
01:03:18,049 --> 01:03:15,839
um is quite rigorous this is not just

1583
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:18,059
something they kind of hand wave around

1584
01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:20,400
and confirm Miracle status or Saint

1585
01:03:24,829 --> 01:03:22,559
status on random people there's like

1586
01:03:27,410 --> 01:03:24,839
very prescribed processes and

1587
01:03:30,109 --> 01:03:27,420
investigations that occur before these

1588
01:03:32,210 --> 01:03:30,119
kinds of events I'm sorry but and yet

1589
01:03:34,430 --> 01:03:32,220
they do though they do prescribe some as

1590
01:03:36,109 --> 01:03:34,440
Saints and some as Miracles oh yeah no

1591
01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:36,119
they totally do but there's but it's not

1592
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,520
not just like a um like there's there's

1593
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:40,559
a prescribed process to reach those

1594
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,960
conclusions sure yeah right and that's

1595
01:03:48,049 --> 01:03:44,640
that's sort of what I'm saying is that

1596
01:03:49,849 --> 01:03:48,059
like the the Miracle at Fatima was

1597
01:03:51,530 --> 01:03:49,859
passed through this process of redaction

1598
01:03:54,230 --> 01:03:51,540
into the Catholic church and sort of

1599
01:03:59,089 --> 01:03:54,240
fitted into the Catholic Frameworks and

1600
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:59,099
in turn uh ascribed a miraculous nature

1601
01:04:04,190 --> 01:04:01,680
to this event that in a purely secular

1602
01:04:05,930 --> 01:04:04,200
society would probably have very other

1603
01:04:06,890 --> 01:04:05,940
kind of connotations or interpretations

1604
01:04:08,450 --> 01:04:06,900
yeah

1605
01:04:10,549 --> 01:04:08,460
you know every time I talk to somebody

1606
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:10,559
about aerial School the conversation

1607
01:04:14,450 --> 01:04:12,240
always leads to that because they talk

1608
01:04:15,950 --> 01:04:14,460
about the uh the number of witnesses and

1609
01:04:19,010 --> 01:04:15,960
I say well what's your take on the

1610
01:04:20,569 --> 01:04:19,020
Miracle Fatima and I usually get a

1611
01:04:22,370 --> 01:04:20,579
little bit of deflection so then I bring

1612
01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:22,380
out the uh the walls and gnome story

1613
01:04:27,770 --> 01:04:24,720
which is actually also very similar to

1614
01:04:29,809 --> 01:04:27,780
the aerial School the school children

1615
01:04:32,809 --> 01:04:29,819
saw a group of gnomes chasing them in

1616
01:04:35,530 --> 01:04:32,819
bubble cars uh in England yeah sorry

1617
01:04:37,970 --> 01:04:35,540
repeat that in a bubble car bubble car

1618
01:04:40,549 --> 01:04:37,980
that sounds interesting man I don't know

1619
01:04:42,230 --> 01:04:40,559
what a bubble car is but uh they said is

1620
01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:42,240
it an orb

1621
01:04:47,030 --> 01:04:44,880
it's yeah it's an orb no no more okay

1622
01:04:48,109 --> 01:04:47,040
cool these are your your typical kind of

1623
01:04:50,690 --> 01:04:48,119
gnomes

1624
01:04:56,410 --> 01:04:53,809
when was it uh in the 70s I said a whole

1625
01:04:59,210 --> 01:04:56,420
podcast about this yeah the bubble cars

1626
01:05:01,069 --> 01:04:59,220
oh yeah well I'm about the Gnomes yeah

1627
01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:01,079
about the Gnomes and their cars and

1628
01:05:04,250 --> 01:05:02,640
their beards

1629
01:05:06,770 --> 01:05:04,260
um similar story though

1630
01:05:09,230 --> 01:05:06,780
um so I mean if you want to

1631
01:05:10,970 --> 01:05:09,240
um take Ariel very seriously take the

1632
01:05:12,829 --> 01:05:10,980
miracle of the sun very seriously in the

1633
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:12,839
Gnomes I think

1634
01:05:15,770 --> 01:05:14,160
that's that's what they're talking about

1635
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:15,780
when they say the Holy Trinity

1636
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:18,480
yeah the Gnomes yeah

1637
01:05:24,349 --> 01:05:21,839
um The Flying Saucer yeah yeah

1638
01:05:26,450 --> 01:05:24,359
oh man I don't usually get hate

1639
01:05:29,030 --> 01:05:26,460
yeah I'm sure that might kick off a few

1640
01:05:31,309 --> 01:05:29,040
um so Kimball is our resident plasma Guy

1641
01:05:33,289 --> 01:05:31,319
what's your read on Plasma in

1642
01:05:36,530 --> 01:05:33,299
relationship to a vehicle interference

1643
01:05:39,349 --> 01:05:36,540
yeah well okay that I'll start by saying

1644
01:05:43,130 --> 01:05:39,359
that there is no publicly available

1645
01:05:46,370 --> 01:05:43,140
evidence that verifies that all

1646
01:05:48,410 --> 01:05:46,380
lightning has these effects so that's an

1647
01:05:50,510 --> 01:05:48,420
interesting starting point how something

1648
01:05:52,250 --> 01:05:50,520
that is also quite interesting is that

1649
01:05:54,349 --> 01:05:52,260
we have these reports from the 50s where

1650
01:05:56,809 --> 01:05:54,359
the Air Force is attributing these

1651
01:05:59,930 --> 01:05:56,819
effects to ball lightning and it wasn't

1652
01:06:02,030 --> 01:05:59,940
until 2014 that ball lightning was

1653
01:06:03,770 --> 01:06:02,040
publicly verified through peer review

1654
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,780
and physical review letters

1655
01:06:08,990 --> 01:06:05,760
and uh you know that's a significant

1656
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:09,000
period of time between the Air Force

1657
01:06:13,490 --> 01:06:11,280
sort of taking people at their word and

1658
01:06:15,230 --> 01:06:13,500
then interpret so so let me just pause

1659
01:06:18,410 --> 01:06:15,240
there actually what we get into a lot is

1660
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:18,420
observation versus interpretation that's

1661
01:06:22,370 --> 01:06:20,160
something we talk about a lot here

1662
01:06:23,690 --> 01:06:22,380
people are observing things the

1663
01:06:26,510 --> 01:06:23,700
interpretation

1664
01:06:27,770 --> 01:06:26,520
you know is uh questioned and uh we

1665
01:06:29,150 --> 01:06:27,780
shouldn't be taking people at their word

1666
01:06:30,890 --> 01:06:29,160
but

1667
01:06:33,470 --> 01:06:30,900
you know there are things like uh James

1668
01:06:35,329 --> 01:06:33,480
oberg NASA scientist he talks about how

1669
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:35,339
um you know the hundreds of people saw a

1670
01:06:40,430 --> 01:06:39,119
structured UFO uh Traverse the sky there

1671
01:06:41,809 --> 01:06:40,440
were hundreds of reports of this a

1672
01:06:44,630 --> 01:06:41,819
structured craft

1673
01:06:46,130 --> 01:06:44,640
he did some uh you know science and uh

1674
01:06:49,430 --> 01:06:46,140
found that there was a fireball swarm

1675
01:06:50,750 --> 01:06:49,440
that passed overhead that day so it's an

1676
01:06:54,049 --> 01:06:50,760
interesting thing because as a skeptic

1677
01:06:55,549 --> 01:06:54,059
it's like 100 people say I saw a UFO and

1678
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:55,559
it's like well we can't verify there's a

1679
01:07:00,049 --> 01:06:57,359
UFO so it's easy to say like no you

1680
01:07:02,270 --> 01:07:00,059
didn't see a UFO meaning you know flying

1681
01:07:03,710 --> 01:07:02,280
sauce or whatever yeah we get into some

1682
01:07:05,329 --> 01:07:03,720
language arguments there though because

1683
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:05,339
then it like it feels like an

1684
01:07:09,589 --> 01:07:06,720
invalidation when somebody saw something

1685
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,599
extremely novel that I've never seen

1686
01:07:12,950 --> 01:07:11,280
before and I when I looked up videos of

1687
01:07:14,270 --> 01:07:12,960
these things these Fireball swarms I was

1688
01:07:15,470 --> 01:07:14,280
stunned because they do look like

1689
01:07:18,529 --> 01:07:15,480
structured craft because they're all

1690
01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:18,539
Trout the lights are traveling in unison

1691
01:07:23,089 --> 01:07:20,940
um so there's there's this very strange

1692
01:07:25,730 --> 01:07:23,099
Middle Ground where we have this long

1693
01:07:27,890 --> 01:07:25,740
list of historic phenomena where um

1694
01:07:30,289 --> 01:07:27,900
people are reporting observationally a

1695
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:30,299
consistent set of features and we don't

1696
01:07:36,529 --> 01:07:32,160
have like instrumentation and a method

1697
01:07:38,930 --> 01:07:36,539
of verification in place uh to establish

1698
01:07:42,049 --> 01:07:38,940
that the objects exist under are there

1699
01:07:44,990 --> 01:07:42,059
for phenomena or whatever until we end

1700
01:07:46,670 --> 01:07:45,000
up getting the sensors that can kind of

1701
01:07:47,930 --> 01:07:46,680
provide the proof and we're seeing that

1702
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:47,940
over and over

1703
01:07:51,529 --> 01:07:49,680
um in the recent couple decades there

1704
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,539
have been about a dozen novel

1705
01:07:55,490 --> 01:07:53,520
atmospheric plasma phenomena discovered

1706
01:07:56,690 --> 01:07:55,500
through well not even discovered being

1707
01:07:59,210 --> 01:07:56,700
they've been reported for hundreds of

1708
01:08:01,849 --> 01:07:59,220
years but the sensors are finally good

1709
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:01,859
enough to verify scientifically so

1710
01:08:05,329 --> 01:08:03,359
there's an interesting middle ground

1711
01:08:07,430 --> 01:08:05,339
here that I don't think we should you

1712
01:08:10,089 --> 01:08:07,440
know this credit I think that there's

1713
01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:10,099
it's worth it sort of Leaning into

1714
01:08:16,430 --> 01:08:13,680
hearing people report observations but

1715
01:08:19,610 --> 01:08:16,440
then Nick I love the the person like we

1716
01:08:21,410 --> 01:08:19,620
have to hold back on sort of being firm

1717
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:21,420
in our interpretations

1718
01:08:27,169 --> 01:08:24,480
right yeah they yeah now

1719
01:08:29,930 --> 01:08:27,179
um didn't Eric Davis write a paper

1720
01:08:32,030 --> 01:08:29,940
um kind of at least speculating on how

1721
01:08:34,669 --> 01:08:32,040
ball lightning could interfere with

1722
01:08:38,030 --> 01:08:34,679
electrical systems yes ball lightning

1723
01:08:41,809 --> 01:08:38,040
report in 2003 John Greenwald Jr uh

1724
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:41,819
foyed it released it in 2019. Dr Eric

1725
01:08:46,970 --> 01:08:44,640
Davis wrote that under contract uh it's

1726
01:08:48,169 --> 01:08:46,980
a classify it was at the time a uh not

1727
01:08:49,610 --> 01:08:48,179
released anyone can't remember what the

1728
01:08:51,829 --> 01:08:49,620
classification was but it was not public

1729
01:08:55,370 --> 01:08:51,839
uh he wrote it for the U.S Air Force

1730
01:08:57,229 --> 01:08:55,380
research labs in that paper he says that

1731
01:08:59,749 --> 01:08:57,239
um traditional you like reports of

1732
01:09:01,729 --> 01:08:59,759
ghosts and elves and uh all that stuff

1733
01:09:04,370 --> 01:09:01,739
and now ball lightning it's all ball

1734
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:04,380
lightning and he says UFO specifically

1735
01:09:08,450 --> 01:09:06,719
he uh talks about how UFO victims are

1736
01:09:10,610 --> 01:09:08,460
talking about ball lightning he um goes

1737
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:10,620
into detail about how fall lightning is

1738
01:09:15,289 --> 01:09:13,440
what thunderstorm independent uh and

1739
01:09:16,970 --> 01:09:15,299
he's uh goes into all these uh things so

1740
01:09:18,110 --> 01:09:16,980
yes and he talks about all that stuff

1741
01:09:19,249 --> 01:09:18,120
and uh

1742
01:09:22,249 --> 01:09:19,259
so it's interesting that he's saying

1743
01:09:23,930 --> 01:09:22,259
that to the US Air Force in 2003.

1744
01:09:26,090 --> 01:09:23,940
um and even then

1745
01:09:30,289 --> 01:09:26,100
all lightning was not publicly verified

1746
01:09:32,749 --> 01:09:30,299
to even exist until 11 years later right

1747
01:09:35,390 --> 01:09:32,759
no I mean he's this is

1748
01:09:37,970 --> 01:09:35,400
um it was more theoretical right because

1749
01:09:40,430 --> 01:09:37,980
he's also kind of talking about

1750
01:09:42,890 --> 01:09:40,440
um persevere's work right about uh em

1751
01:09:45,229 --> 01:09:42,900
effects on perception

1752
01:09:47,329 --> 01:09:45,239
yeah he goes into a lot of uh

1753
01:09:49,970 --> 01:09:47,339
speculative territory and the purpose of

1754
01:09:51,650 --> 01:09:49,980
the paper is it's a series of papers he

1755
01:09:53,990 --> 01:09:51,660
wrote another one he wrote about

1756
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:54,000
um uh teleportation uh which we you know

1757
01:09:58,189 --> 01:09:55,679
there's no physical evidence that we can

1758
01:09:59,990 --> 01:09:58,199
produce whatever anyway so yes they're

1759
01:10:01,729 --> 01:10:00,000
theoretical papers he does cite real

1760
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:01,739
evidence and then he takes it to the

1761
01:10:06,350 --> 01:10:04,800
next step uh yeah so it's uh it's not

1762
01:10:08,570 --> 01:10:06,360
firm that was always kind of the

1763
01:10:11,870 --> 01:10:08,580
impression I got from Reading Davis's

1764
01:10:15,050 --> 01:10:11,880
stuff is that uh highly highly

1765
01:10:17,630 --> 01:10:15,060
theoretical not applicable kind of stuff

1766
01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:17,640
um kind of Pops eye things like that so

1767
01:10:20,030 --> 01:10:19,199
just wondering and and yeah you always

1768
01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:20,040
see

1769
01:10:25,010 --> 01:10:22,260
um traces a person you're in the

1770
01:10:26,450 --> 01:10:25,020
Paranormal it's always coming up uh no

1771
01:10:28,669 --> 01:10:26,460
matter what what topic you're in whether

1772
01:10:32,270 --> 01:10:28,679
it's ghosts or UFOs or Psy or anything

1773
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:32,280
like that people are really hung up on

1774
01:10:37,850 --> 01:10:35,760
uh the electromagnetic fields I guess

1775
01:10:40,310 --> 01:10:37,860
well it's because well it's interesting

1776
01:10:42,890 --> 01:10:40,320
like okay if you go into the

1777
01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:42,900
peer-reviewed literature about uh

1778
01:10:46,610 --> 01:10:45,600
lightning uh strike anybody who studies

1779
01:10:47,870 --> 01:10:46,620
it is going to be annoyed I'm saying

1780
01:10:50,090 --> 01:10:47,880
strike because the technical term is

1781
01:10:54,050 --> 01:10:50,100
stroke but I say strike lightning strike

1782
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:54,060
victims uh you see the experiential

1783
01:11:00,770 --> 01:10:58,560
qualitative descriptions of a lot of uh

1784
01:11:03,530 --> 01:11:00,780
abduction reports

1785
01:11:05,330 --> 01:11:03,540
um you know people uh get knocked out uh

1786
01:11:07,610 --> 01:11:05,340
that one of the things is like if you

1787
01:11:08,689 --> 01:11:07,620
find somebody unconscious in a field you

1788
01:11:10,430 --> 01:11:08,699
know they may have been struck by

1789
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:10,440
lightning or sorry found them in

1790
01:11:13,490 --> 01:11:11,400
unconscious and field and when they wake

1791
01:11:15,410 --> 01:11:13,500
up they have amnesia they might have

1792
01:11:18,050 --> 01:11:15,420
been struck by lightning so it's like in

1793
01:11:22,729 --> 01:11:18,060
the scientific literature uh it's a

1794
01:11:25,070 --> 01:11:22,739
established effect that a intense uh a

1795
01:11:27,709 --> 01:11:25,080
like electric uh you know strike can

1796
01:11:31,310 --> 01:11:27,719
cause some very similar effects to what

1797
01:11:32,510 --> 01:11:31,320
UFO uh some uh not the people in their

1798
01:11:35,570 --> 01:11:32,520
beds and stuff that's probably hitting

1799
01:11:37,550 --> 01:11:35,580
the garlic and stuff yeah yeah but uh

1800
01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:37,560
you know like there are similarities

1801
01:11:43,070 --> 01:11:40,440
there that I find interesting but at the

1802
01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:43,080
same time when we can't be saying like

1803
01:11:48,830 --> 01:11:45,440
that is what that is right and

1804
01:11:50,990 --> 01:11:48,840
oftentimes even if um if I for example

1805
01:11:54,350 --> 01:11:51,000
go into detail about the similarity

1806
01:11:56,510 --> 01:11:54,360
people might be hearing that and then

1807
01:11:58,610 --> 01:11:56,520
um running with it and so it's hard to

1808
01:12:01,370 --> 01:11:58,620
talk about these uh sensitive subjects

1809
01:12:03,290 --> 01:12:01,380
in a way that does Justice to the

1810
01:12:06,470 --> 01:12:03,300
available information

1811
01:12:07,970 --> 01:12:06,480
without uh speculating so far that uh

1812
01:12:10,010 --> 01:12:07,980
somebody will I mean it's maybe it's not

1813
01:12:12,350 --> 01:12:10,020
our fault but speculating so far that

1814
01:12:16,250 --> 01:12:12,360
they sort of like lean into the most

1815
01:12:22,490 --> 01:12:18,669
it's great

1816
01:12:24,530 --> 01:12:22,500
damn I wanted to call attention to a one

1817
01:12:25,910 --> 01:12:24,540
a number of audience members are sharing

1818
01:12:27,410 --> 01:12:25,920
stories about seeing ball lightning

1819
01:12:29,390 --> 01:12:27,420
which is pretty cool I've been trying to

1820
01:12:30,290 --> 01:12:29,400
prop yeah to populate them onto the

1821
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:30,300
scene

1822
01:12:34,729 --> 01:12:31,920
um or onto the screen as they've come up

1823
01:12:36,410 --> 01:12:34,739
yeah like we have the cmog here is

1824
01:12:38,330 --> 01:12:36,420
saying talking about

1825
01:12:40,430 --> 01:12:38,340
seeing it

1826
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:40,440
um I think there have been there have

1827
01:12:46,010 --> 01:12:43,679
been a handful of uh of comments on that

1828
01:12:47,330 --> 01:12:46,020
um so I think that's super cool

1829
01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,340
um but I wanted to call attention to

1830
01:12:51,890 --> 01:12:49,440
this number of comments from the earth

1831
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:51,900
who's turning in turning quickly into a

1832
01:12:54,169 --> 01:12:53,520
close friend of the Pod

1833
01:12:55,850 --> 01:12:54,179
um

1834
01:12:58,370 --> 01:12:55,860
basically calling out the kind of

1835
01:12:59,689 --> 01:12:58,380
folkloric nature of seeing orbs of light

1836
01:13:00,970 --> 01:12:59,699
or Flames

1837
01:13:03,649 --> 01:13:00,980
um so just starting with this general

1838
01:13:05,810 --> 01:13:03,659
statement that they're seen in various

1839
01:13:08,750 --> 01:13:05,820
folklore Traditions around the world

1840
01:13:10,370 --> 01:13:08,760
and then calls upon in Japan that there

1841
01:13:12,050 --> 01:13:10,380
are various types of demons and monsters

1842
01:13:13,490 --> 01:13:12,060
that occur in this form which is super

1843
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:13,500
cool by the way if anyone has ever

1844
01:13:20,270 --> 01:13:16,320
looked into like Japanese folklore and

1845
01:13:23,090 --> 01:13:20,280
mythology amazing stuff like there's

1846
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:23,100
um like like Yokai things or like uh

1847
01:13:28,130 --> 01:13:25,199
Shinto stuff because there's there's a

1848
01:13:30,350 --> 01:13:28,140
lot there's yeah there is a lot dipping

1849
01:13:31,490 --> 01:13:30,360
my toes in that but yeah really

1850
01:13:33,649 --> 01:13:31,500
interesting things they actually have

1851
01:13:38,709 --> 01:13:33,659
their own version of um a sleep

1852
01:13:43,850 --> 01:13:41,649
it translates to the choking ghost

1853
01:13:45,649 --> 01:13:43,860
essentially but it describes that

1854
01:13:47,990 --> 01:13:45,659
feeling of a weight on your chest and

1855
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:48,000
being unable to breathe kind of like the

1856
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:50,400
old hag from um from English folklore

1857
01:13:55,870 --> 01:13:52,560
which is it's the uh kind of etymology

1858
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:55,880
of looking Haggard in the morning yes

1859
01:14:01,310 --> 01:13:58,560
I bet these are Yokai because I always

1860
01:14:02,990 --> 01:14:01,320
think of the akanami like the um the the

1861
01:14:04,910 --> 01:14:03,000
like scum liquor which lives in your

1862
01:14:07,850 --> 01:14:04,920
bathroom and like licks the filth at

1863
01:14:10,910 --> 01:14:07,860
your bathroom I dude I love this stuff

1864
01:14:13,550 --> 01:14:10,920
um and and then goes on to uh connect

1865
01:14:15,890 --> 01:14:13,560
this to Spook lights in graveyards

1866
01:14:17,689 --> 01:14:15,900
around the United States right like that

1867
01:14:19,610 --> 01:14:17,699
there is this kind of you know I always

1868
01:14:21,470 --> 01:14:19,620
want to caution against perennialism and

1869
01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:21,480
kind of flattening down Traditions that

1870
01:14:25,970 --> 01:14:23,520
are rich and complex into like all being

1871
01:14:28,610 --> 01:14:25,980
exactly the same baby food consistency

1872
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:28,620
but also it is really cool when we come

1873
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:31,260
across parts of these discussions that

1874
01:14:34,910 --> 01:14:33,120
have a thread that continues through

1875
01:14:37,130 --> 01:14:34,920
different cultures and across different

1876
01:14:42,649 --> 01:14:37,140
eras I think that's always exciting to

1877
01:14:48,290 --> 01:14:45,229
well the uh the history of what you just

1878
01:14:50,330 --> 01:14:48,300
said reminded me uh distinctly of a

1879
01:14:51,950 --> 01:14:50,340
section that I wrote about on my website

1880
01:14:54,649 --> 01:14:51,960
about

1881
01:14:58,130 --> 01:14:54,659
um the jack-o-lanterns uh the historical

1882
01:14:59,689 --> 01:14:58,140
uh meaning of them so uh like

1883
01:15:02,330 --> 01:14:59,699
uh I've got a quote here profession

1884
01:15:04,250 --> 01:15:02,340
Professor uh ashleman he writes about

1885
01:15:05,930 --> 01:15:04,260
the focal origins of Jacqueline tunes on

1886
01:15:08,570 --> 01:15:05,940
the University of Pittsburgh's legends

1887
01:15:10,430 --> 01:15:08,580
about fire fairy's website any uh quotes

1888
01:15:12,649 --> 01:15:10,440
from University of Pittsburgh you say

1889
01:15:14,990 --> 01:15:12,659
yes is this guy still alive I should ask

1890
01:15:17,570 --> 01:15:15,000
him out for coffee I think he is uh he's

1891
01:15:21,169 --> 01:15:17,580
he is retired now though uh but um that

1892
01:15:23,810 --> 01:15:21,179
means he has free time that's true uh

1893
01:15:25,669 --> 01:15:23,820
the source from 1920 uh as cited uh

1894
01:15:27,770 --> 01:15:25,679
there's a sort of a light on the sea

1895
01:15:29,870 --> 01:15:27,780
Sometimes some call it a Jack-o-Lantern

1896
01:15:32,270 --> 01:15:29,880
and some say it is sent by them to

1897
01:15:33,770 --> 01:15:32,280
mislead them and then Ashland goes on

1898
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:33,780
Willow Wisp is the most common English

1899
01:15:38,090 --> 01:15:36,000
designation for a family of fairy beings

1900
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:38,100
characterized by their fiery appearance

1901
01:15:43,430 --> 01:15:40,320
and their tendency to lead nighttime

1902
01:15:45,530 --> 01:15:43,440
Wayfarers is stray uh you know other uh

1903
01:15:47,270 --> 01:15:45,540
the term wisp refers to a Twist of straw

1904
01:15:48,530 --> 01:15:47,280
used as a torch so it like looks like a

1905
01:15:51,050 --> 01:15:48,540
torch in the night

1906
01:15:53,330 --> 01:15:51,060
um you know and then uh yeah and I go

1907
01:15:56,330 --> 01:15:53,340
into like site uh different things where

1908
01:15:58,310 --> 01:15:56,340
like uh GIS in Korea see what they say

1909
01:15:59,930 --> 01:15:58,320
is a UFO that looks like it they call it

1910
01:16:01,310 --> 01:15:59,940
a Jack-o-Lantern and then they're

1911
01:16:03,709 --> 01:16:01,320
talking about how it like

1912
01:16:05,770 --> 01:16:03,719
flying into the uh artillery Air Bursts

1913
01:16:08,450 --> 01:16:05,780
instantaneously very strange

1914
01:16:10,250 --> 01:16:08,460
descriptions and then they all uh you

1915
01:16:13,070 --> 01:16:10,260
know they reportedly

1916
01:16:15,709 --> 01:16:13,080
fall ill with uh you know the sickness

1917
01:16:18,169 --> 01:16:15,719
that seems like radiation poisoning but

1918
01:16:20,750 --> 01:16:18,179
there's no verification as always so

1919
01:16:23,390 --> 01:16:20,760
then it's not even maybe worth even

1920
01:16:25,010 --> 01:16:23,400
mentioning so it's like this is

1921
01:16:26,390 --> 01:16:25,020
something like it's like Nick an

1922
01:16:29,810 --> 01:16:26,400
excellent point you were sort of like

1923
01:16:32,689 --> 01:16:29,820
raising in my mind is that like why

1924
01:16:34,370 --> 01:16:32,699
for people who want to push this

1925
01:16:36,410 --> 01:16:34,380
conversation forward from the

1926
01:16:38,149 --> 01:16:36,420
perspective of believing that um you

1927
01:16:41,149 --> 01:16:38,159
know the flying saucers are non-human

1928
01:16:42,229 --> 01:16:41,159
intelligence why are we not filtering

1929
01:16:45,410 --> 01:16:42,239
out

1930
01:16:48,169 --> 01:16:45,420
these cases that don't have any

1931
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:48,179
substance to them why you know they're

1932
01:16:51,709 --> 01:16:49,920
exciting maybe but like once you get

1933
01:16:54,050 --> 01:16:51,719
through it and you see like okay there

1934
01:16:55,970 --> 01:16:54,060
was no data taken from the Cars to show

1935
01:16:58,610 --> 01:16:55,980
they were uh you know subject to an

1936
01:17:00,590 --> 01:16:58,620
electromagnetic field it's like what do

1937
01:17:02,510 --> 01:17:00,600
we do with that it's just stories uh we

1938
01:17:04,070 --> 01:17:02,520
need and I get it that's why they sort

1939
01:17:06,590 --> 01:17:04,080
of leaned into this stuff once you don't

1940
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:06,600
have the data then it's like isn't that

1941
01:17:11,149 --> 01:17:08,159
evidence that we should sort of toss

1942
01:17:13,729 --> 01:17:11,159
this sort of trajectory away the the

1943
01:17:16,189 --> 01:17:13,739
prolific Jenny Randalls always

1944
01:17:19,070 --> 01:17:16,199
um made a case about how debunking is

1945
01:17:21,830 --> 01:17:19,080
good for ufology because it you know it

1946
01:17:24,410 --> 01:17:21,840
it's like pruning you you get all this

1947
01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:24,420
stuff out of here I think uh I think it

1948
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:26,400
was heineck who always referred to like

1949
01:17:29,870 --> 01:17:28,500
uthology being a bundle of sticks and

1950
01:17:31,669 --> 01:17:29,880
even if a lot of them break you still

1951
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:31,679
have a couple to hold on to or something

1952
01:17:35,030 --> 01:17:32,640
like that

1953
01:17:37,070 --> 01:17:35,040
you don't you don't need a bunch of

1954
01:17:38,510 --> 01:17:37,080
sticks right you you want the good stuff

1955
01:17:40,910 --> 01:17:38,520
so yeah I think we should clear all this

1956
01:17:43,610 --> 01:17:40,920
out like that like that Flatwood story

1957
01:17:45,890 --> 01:17:43,620
from male magazine or the uh

1958
01:17:48,410 --> 01:17:45,900
you know that one from 1909 really I

1959
01:17:50,689 --> 01:17:48,420
don't believe has a has a place in that

1960
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:50,699
uh in that document

1961
01:17:58,310 --> 01:17:54,960
um that was probably a uh a carbide lamp

1962
01:18:02,390 --> 01:18:00,830
um I don't know maybe it's it's to it's

1963
01:18:04,729 --> 01:18:02,400
to buff up the numbers to make it look

1964
01:18:05,990 --> 01:18:04,739
like it's more substantial than it is I

1965
01:18:07,010 --> 01:18:06,000
suppose

1966
01:18:10,490 --> 01:18:07,020
um

1967
01:18:12,890 --> 01:18:10,500
eager ufologists right they uh they're

1968
01:18:15,530 --> 01:18:12,900
trying really hard to make the case and

1969
01:18:17,030 --> 01:18:15,540
like seeing your biases is really

1970
01:18:19,729 --> 01:18:17,040
important here

1971
01:18:22,729 --> 01:18:19,739
um and I always say everybody has biases

1972
01:18:24,890 --> 01:18:22,739
but once you know yours it's easier to

1973
01:18:27,169 --> 01:18:24,900
work around them and things like that

1974
01:18:29,810 --> 01:18:27,179
I'm not always trying to shoot down uh

1975
01:18:31,490 --> 01:18:29,820
UFO cases like like Michigan I always

1976
01:18:33,410 --> 01:18:31,500
bring up I still think it's an unknown I

1977
01:18:34,189 --> 01:18:33,420
think it's an interesting one

1978
01:18:37,310 --> 01:18:34,199
um

1979
01:18:39,050 --> 01:18:37,320
but you know I can't I can't let let

1980
01:18:40,669 --> 01:18:39,060
that get in my way otherwise you know I

1981
01:18:43,070 --> 01:18:40,679
researching Hudson Valley and

1982
01:18:45,229 --> 01:18:43,080
researching this now I mean like

1983
01:18:47,149 --> 01:18:45,239
there's much substance to them why hang

1984
01:18:49,010 --> 01:18:47,159
on to that you're right there's really

1985
01:18:50,689 --> 01:18:49,020
no point to it

1986
01:18:53,510 --> 01:18:50,699
yeah there has to be almost like a

1987
01:18:56,090 --> 01:18:53,520
triage process otherwise you spend your

1988
01:18:58,010 --> 01:18:56,100
entire time the entire Community or a

1989
01:18:59,590 --> 01:18:58,020
field or whatever spends all of its time

1990
01:19:03,110 --> 01:18:59,600
chasing down

1991
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:03,120
vacuous or in substantial cases I I'm a

1992
01:19:07,010 --> 01:19:04,560
big believer in this kind of filtering

1993
01:19:10,189 --> 01:19:07,020
process and I think I I keep going back

1994
01:19:12,530 --> 01:19:10,199
to the idea that if we are like

1995
01:19:14,689 --> 01:19:12,540
uh presuming under the assumption that

1996
01:19:17,149 --> 01:19:14,699
we are interrogating one of the greatest

1997
01:19:20,090 --> 01:19:17,159
and most important questions to ever

1998
01:19:22,550 --> 01:19:20,100
uh confront Humanity we also in turn

1999
01:19:24,229 --> 01:19:22,560
have a responsibility to respect the

2000
01:19:26,930 --> 01:19:24,239
subject enough to hold it to some kind

2001
01:19:28,610 --> 01:19:26,940
of Standards right that's a good way to

2002
01:19:31,130 --> 01:19:28,620
put it yeah that's what I always come

2003
01:19:32,930 --> 01:19:31,140
back to I like it is you know it's it's

2004
01:19:35,450 --> 01:19:32,940
not about debunking it's not about

2005
01:19:36,890 --> 01:19:35,460
denigrating people's experiences but

2006
01:19:38,930 --> 01:19:36,900
that if we are to take it seriously

2007
01:19:41,149 --> 01:19:38,940
because the nature of the subject is in

2008
01:19:44,390 --> 01:19:41,159
and of itself extremely serious and

2009
01:19:46,669 --> 01:19:44,400
substantial that we also owe it to the

2010
01:19:49,070 --> 01:19:46,679
subject and to ourselves to respect it

2011
01:19:50,810 --> 01:19:49,080
the way a serious subject is respected

2012
01:19:53,870 --> 01:19:50,820
and explored it's not like a

2013
01:19:58,070 --> 01:19:53,880
free-for-all you know

2014
01:19:58,669 --> 01:19:58,080
super credulous disingenuous

2015
01:20:01,850 --> 01:19:58,679
um

2016
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:01,860
exercise you know you'll you'll hear a

2017
01:20:05,990 --> 01:20:03,600
lot of the the biggest Believers say

2018
01:20:08,030 --> 01:20:06,000
that you know 90 to 95 percent of UFO

2019
01:20:09,770 --> 01:20:08,040
cases can be explained I don't know

2020
01:20:13,070 --> 01:20:09,780
where those numbers have ever come from

2021
01:20:14,030 --> 01:20:13,080
honestly but if they truly believe that

2022
01:20:16,130 --> 01:20:14,040
then

2023
01:20:18,010 --> 01:20:16,140
yeah they're a lot of these cases are

2024
01:20:20,390 --> 01:20:18,020
going to be in that 90 to 95 percent

2025
01:20:23,090 --> 01:20:20,400
yeah I mean it's one of the things we

2026
01:20:24,470 --> 01:20:23,100
always say I mean I I pull a lot on my

2027
01:20:25,669 --> 01:20:24,480
professional life or pull from it

2028
01:20:28,010 --> 01:20:25,679
frequently but like one of the things we

2029
01:20:30,830 --> 01:20:28,020
always say is the plural of anecdote is

2030
01:20:32,209 --> 01:20:30,840
not data right just because there's a

2031
01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:32,219
bunch of stories doesn't mean that

2032
01:20:36,050 --> 01:20:34,320
there's actual data now what I keep

2033
01:20:38,510 --> 01:20:36,060
coming back to like like when I'm

2034
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:38,520
thinking about this subject a lot and I

2035
01:20:41,750 --> 01:20:40,080
feel like I'm always in this internal

2036
01:20:43,790 --> 01:20:41,760
kind of negotiation about what do I

2037
01:20:45,950 --> 01:20:43,800
actually think versus what do I just

2038
01:20:48,350 --> 01:20:45,960
think is interesting versus you know

2039
01:20:49,910 --> 01:20:48,360
what are my opinions and I don't I don't

2040
01:20:52,189 --> 01:20:49,920
speak too much about my opinions in

2041
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:52,199
general but what I keep coming back to

2042
01:20:57,050 --> 01:20:54,480
is for the truly anomalous stuff for the

2043
01:20:59,390 --> 01:20:57,060
stuff that is really inexplicable like

2044
01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:59,400
the Lake Michigan case etc etc I do

2045
01:21:02,630 --> 01:21:00,960
think there is truly anomalous

2046
01:21:04,729 --> 01:21:02,640
paranormal unusual activity that

2047
01:21:06,830 --> 01:21:04,739
surrounds us and in my opinion it speaks

2048
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:06,840
more to

2049
01:21:09,649 --> 01:21:07,440
um

2050
01:21:11,330 --> 01:21:09,659
the insufficiencies for of our

2051
01:21:12,649 --> 01:21:11,340
Frameworks for interpreting and

2052
01:21:14,450 --> 01:21:12,659
measuring and understanding the world

2053
01:21:16,130 --> 01:21:14,460
around us than anything else like it's

2054
01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:16,140
some real Thomas Kuhn Scientific

2055
01:21:21,050 --> 01:21:18,719
Revolution stuff where I just think that

2056
01:21:25,610 --> 01:21:21,060
our existing

2057
01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:25,620
scientific empiricism in that model is

2058
01:21:31,130 --> 01:21:28,320
very useful and Powerful but also

2059
01:21:33,890 --> 01:21:31,140
Limited in application and so in turn it

2060
01:21:37,130 --> 01:21:33,900
to me like one of the bets I have bets

2061
01:21:38,570 --> 01:21:37,140
is that in our lifetime so uh Nick

2062
01:21:40,430 --> 01:21:38,580
you're the oldest one here you have a

2063
01:21:43,970 --> 01:21:40,440
foot in the grave but I'm the spring

2064
01:21:44,689 --> 01:21:43,980
chicken so in my lifetime

2065
01:21:46,370 --> 01:21:44,699
um

2066
01:21:48,709 --> 01:21:46,380
I think one of the major things we'll

2067
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:48,719
see is basically a paradigm shift in how

2068
01:21:52,250 --> 01:21:50,400
science is done

2069
01:21:54,050 --> 01:21:52,260
um I don't think the laboratory model or

2070
01:21:57,410 --> 01:21:54,060
like the clinical double-blind stuff

2071
01:22:00,709 --> 01:21:57,420
will be disrupted but I think the way we

2072
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:00,719
um Aggregate and analyze and assess

2073
01:22:05,630 --> 01:22:03,120
knowledge and information and measure it

2074
01:22:08,750 --> 01:22:05,640
and draw conclusions from it

2075
01:22:10,610 --> 01:22:08,760
um will be like refactored in pretty

2076
01:22:12,770 --> 01:22:10,620
substantial ways

2077
01:22:15,649 --> 01:22:12,780
style claim hopefully I live long enough

2078
01:22:17,149 --> 01:22:15,659
to uh to see that it's okay if if you

2079
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:17,159
don't I'll talk to you on the Ouija

2080
01:22:23,149 --> 01:22:20,880
board I'll send you text messages yes

2081
01:22:24,530 --> 01:22:23,159
I'll tweet at you on the Ouija board or

2082
01:22:29,090 --> 01:22:24,540
pendulum

2083
01:22:30,590 --> 01:22:29,100
like kind of still speaking to what we

2084
01:22:33,530 --> 01:22:30,600
were talking about in the you know the

2085
01:22:35,149 --> 01:22:33,540
90 to 95 explained

2086
01:22:38,390 --> 01:22:35,159
um these cases are still interesting

2087
01:22:39,649 --> 01:22:38,400
because there's still the the story of

2088
01:22:41,810 --> 01:22:39,659
why

2089
01:22:44,030 --> 01:22:41,820
people are seeing mundane or routine

2090
01:22:46,669 --> 01:22:44,040
things and uh

2091
01:22:48,169 --> 01:22:46,679
I'm sorry can you hear that yes one

2092
01:22:51,229 --> 01:22:48,179
second it's not your rattle though what

2093
01:22:53,990 --> 01:22:51,239
is it sounds like a blender

2094
01:22:56,390 --> 01:22:54,000
um it might be his lovely wife like blow

2095
01:22:58,250 --> 01:22:56,400
drying or vacuuming or

2096
01:22:59,709 --> 01:22:58,260
something

2097
01:23:03,350 --> 01:22:59,719
yeah

2098
01:23:09,530 --> 01:23:03,360
she's disrupting my show margaritas

2099
01:23:11,810 --> 01:23:09,540
[Laughter]

2100
01:23:14,330 --> 01:23:11,820
look Louise in the meantime I'd love to

2101
01:23:16,010 --> 01:23:14,340
just ask your thoughts on this since uh

2102
01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:16,020
you know and I love saying it as a

2103
01:23:21,290 --> 01:23:18,840
professional scientist it wasn't it was

2104
01:23:27,110 --> 01:23:23,330
not that

2105
01:23:30,410 --> 01:23:27,120
um yeah so I uh look for it's compliment

2106
01:23:32,270 --> 01:23:30,420
to mix humidifier hello all right yeah I

2107
01:23:33,590 --> 01:23:32,280
don't know what that was but it stopped

2108
01:23:35,870 --> 01:23:33,600
good

2109
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:35,880
I'm suddenly living in a building with a

2110
01:23:43,070 --> 01:23:40,320
lot more people around so oh

2111
01:23:44,330 --> 01:23:43,080
it was a lot louder than the rattle what

2112
01:23:46,790 --> 01:23:44,340
did I miss

2113
01:23:49,070 --> 01:23:46,800
well we were just waiting for you what

2114
01:23:51,709 --> 01:23:49,080
was I saying oh the uh

2115
01:23:53,750 --> 01:23:51,719
even the uh even the explained cases the

2116
01:23:56,510 --> 01:23:53,760
uh the why people are seeing

2117
01:23:58,250 --> 01:23:56,520
flying saucers in Venus uh in mundane

2118
01:24:01,070 --> 01:23:58,260
things I think that's

2119
01:24:03,050 --> 01:24:01,080
an equally interesting uh mystery why

2120
01:24:04,850 --> 01:24:03,060
did they see it why do they see this why

2121
01:24:06,350 --> 01:24:04,860
did they think of it this way and like

2122
01:24:09,470 --> 01:24:06,360
dude that's what I keep coming back to

2123
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:11,990
interesting as anything else like the

2124
01:24:17,090 --> 01:24:14,159
cultural and social and psychological

2125
01:24:18,890 --> 01:24:17,100
and in folkloric

2126
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:18,900
um nature of this subject to me is

2127
01:24:23,209 --> 01:24:21,840
really the i in my opinion probably the

2128
01:24:25,430 --> 01:24:23,219
most interesting part of it yeah

2129
01:24:27,410 --> 01:24:25,440
absolutely and I I I'll use this example

2130
01:24:28,130 --> 01:24:27,420
a lot but the Hudson Valley case

2131
01:24:31,370 --> 01:24:28,140
um

2132
01:24:33,830 --> 01:24:31,380
the experiences people had while looking

2133
01:24:38,270 --> 01:24:33,840
at a group of Cessnas is really

2134
01:24:40,370 --> 01:24:38,280
incredible and um the reason they

2135
01:24:42,530 --> 01:24:40,380
interpreted it that way is super

2136
01:24:45,050 --> 01:24:42,540
fascinating to me where did that come

2137
01:24:46,669 --> 01:24:45,060
from I mean we earlier in this episode

2138
01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:46,679
we see how

2139
01:24:51,709 --> 01:24:49,320
little aspects or characteristics get

2140
01:24:54,130 --> 01:24:51,719
added into the greater UFO story but

2141
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:54,140
like where did it all come from

2142
01:24:59,030 --> 01:24:57,120
how does that how do you see a group of

2143
01:25:01,630 --> 01:24:59,040
planes and have a psychic experience

2144
01:25:04,970 --> 01:25:01,640
with it you know what I mean

2145
01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:04,980
there's still a lot there to unpack one

2146
01:25:09,229 --> 01:25:07,260
of the things I'm always deeply deeply

2147
01:25:12,770 --> 01:25:09,239
fascinated by and I talked to a number

2148
01:25:14,990 --> 01:25:12,780
of experiencers is I'm always curious

2149
01:25:16,610 --> 01:25:15,000
one I love talking to experiencers I

2150
01:25:17,990 --> 01:25:16,620
love hearing their stories like I I

2151
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:18,000
probably get

2152
01:25:23,270 --> 01:25:21,600
between three and five messages every

2153
01:25:26,149 --> 01:25:23,280
week from people that share their

2154
01:25:27,830 --> 01:25:26,159
experiences and I I love it like you're

2155
01:25:33,229 --> 01:25:27,840
getting messages why isn't it no one

2156
01:25:40,370 --> 01:25:34,149
um

2157
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:40,380
about how experiencers put two and two

2158
01:25:44,030 --> 01:25:42,000
together how do they connect what

2159
01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:44,040
happened to them with the ufology

2160
01:25:49,370 --> 01:25:47,040
phenomenon like what how is it informed

2161
01:25:52,669 --> 01:25:49,380
by culture is it did they read something

2162
01:25:54,830 --> 01:25:52,679
did they see something was it a download

2163
01:25:56,510 --> 01:25:54,840
like right like was it just kind of like

2164
01:25:59,870 --> 01:25:56,520
when I say download was it just sort of

2165
01:26:01,910 --> 01:25:59,880
it a Epiphany kind of where they go oh I

2166
01:26:03,830 --> 01:26:01,920
think this is what other abductees or

2167
01:26:05,810 --> 01:26:03,840
contactees or experiences are

2168
01:26:08,810 --> 01:26:05,820
experiencing

2169
01:26:12,169 --> 01:26:08,820
I'd ask uh how do you know about

2170
01:26:15,470 --> 01:26:12,179
you know luck or Karma or jinxing

2171
01:26:17,510 --> 01:26:15,480
something or synchronicities right yeah

2172
01:26:19,729 --> 01:26:17,520
like how do we know these things I

2173
01:26:21,530 --> 01:26:19,739
wasn't taught any of these uh these

2174
01:26:24,590 --> 01:26:21,540
Concepts but we kind of culturally know

2175
01:26:25,990 --> 01:26:24,600
them growing up in the states uh you

2176
01:26:28,310 --> 01:26:26,000
know blacks

2177
01:26:30,350 --> 01:26:28,320
Consciousness is actually just a field

2178
01:26:34,189 --> 01:26:30,360
that we move through and our brains are

2179
01:26:35,770 --> 01:26:34,199
receivers and so yes and that's that in

2180
01:26:45,610 --> 01:26:35,780
turn is

2181
01:26:51,410 --> 01:26:48,649
but no but like yeah like these like I

2182
01:26:53,810 --> 01:26:51,420
I'm just kidding but like these ideas

2183
01:26:55,729 --> 01:26:53,820
um how they sort of form in

2184
01:26:57,410 --> 01:26:55,739
Consciousness and how they're shaped and

2185
01:27:01,070 --> 01:26:57,420
how these connections are made and they

2186
01:27:03,110 --> 01:27:01,080
seem the other thing that I think is how

2187
01:27:05,750 --> 01:27:03,120
do I put this when I talk to

2188
01:27:08,870 --> 01:27:05,760
experiencers too dude I harp on this all

2189
01:27:10,970 --> 01:27:08,880
the time but like it almost feels like

2190
01:27:13,070 --> 01:27:10,980
listening to coded language to me

2191
01:27:15,169 --> 01:27:13,080
because in my head I'm like okay they're

2192
01:27:16,669 --> 01:27:15,179
talking about downloads well in my head

2193
01:27:18,890 --> 01:27:16,679
that translates to oh they're talking

2194
01:27:21,229 --> 01:27:18,900
about like a muse experience or like

2195
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:21,239
creative inspiration right like they're

2196
01:27:24,350 --> 01:27:22,800
just there's just some code switching

2197
01:27:26,030 --> 01:27:24,360
that's going on because this particular

2198
01:27:28,550 --> 01:27:26,040
Community uses very particular

2199
01:27:30,169 --> 01:27:28,560
linguistic tics and behaviors to discuss

2200
01:27:32,930 --> 01:27:30,179
what's going on even though these things

2201
01:27:33,890 --> 01:27:32,940
are kind of talked about very frequently

2202
01:27:35,750 --> 01:27:33,900
um

2203
01:27:36,890 --> 01:27:35,760
in in other spaces and with other

2204
01:27:38,750 --> 01:27:36,900
language

2205
01:27:41,689 --> 01:27:38,760
it's interesting I think that's a really

2206
01:27:45,649 --> 01:27:41,699
important point that often there are

2207
01:27:47,870 --> 01:27:45,659
real phenomena at the heart of a you

2208
01:27:49,729 --> 01:27:47,880
know highly extrapolated from the

2209
01:27:51,649 --> 01:27:49,739
original experience uh you know stories

2210
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:51,659
like

2211
01:27:57,290 --> 01:27:54,000
um for example uh I was just being

2212
01:27:59,090 --> 01:27:57,300
reminded of uh like fata Morgana like um

2213
01:28:01,189 --> 01:27:59,100
the optical illusion

2214
01:28:03,169 --> 01:28:01,199
um I was never like I'm sure it was

2215
01:28:05,149 --> 01:28:03,179
around but I was never taught about it

2216
01:28:07,729 --> 01:28:05,159
growing up I wouldn't have like known

2217
01:28:09,950 --> 01:28:07,739
what I was looking at and depending on

2218
01:28:12,770 --> 01:28:09,960
the object that's the effect where an

2219
01:28:15,890 --> 01:28:12,780
object over the horizon is visible

2220
01:28:18,830 --> 01:28:15,900
elevated above the ocean on the horizon

2221
01:28:20,990 --> 01:28:18,840
within eyesight due to a lensing effect

2222
01:28:22,430 --> 01:28:21,000
in the atmosphere based on very uh

2223
01:28:25,310 --> 01:28:22,440
unusual atmospheric conditions that

2224
01:28:27,709 --> 01:28:25,320
cause the light to bend over the horizon

2225
01:28:29,689 --> 01:28:27,719
um you know so so the fact that that is

2226
01:28:32,870 --> 01:28:29,699
a real thing is pretty remarkable and

2227
01:28:35,570 --> 01:28:32,880
then you know only retroactively you see

2228
01:28:37,370 --> 01:28:35,580
passport to Magonia right Jacque Valley

2229
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:37,380
uses Magonia that there's some

2230
01:28:43,010 --> 01:28:40,320
interesting potential maybe I don't know

2231
01:28:45,350 --> 01:28:43,020
if it's irony but for him to use begonia

2232
01:28:47,330 --> 01:28:45,360
Magonia is the Castle in the Sky in

2233
01:28:48,950 --> 01:28:47,340
medieval times right where the fairies

2234
01:28:50,510 --> 01:28:48,960
took you when you blacked out and then

2235
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:50,520
woke up with amnesia and then tried to

2236
01:28:55,910 --> 01:28:52,320
remember what you had that is an

2237
01:28:58,250 --> 01:28:55,920
experience I put a YouTube video here

2238
01:29:00,290 --> 01:28:58,260
just to show like a real uh in the

2239
01:29:01,729 --> 01:29:00,300
private chat here if you somebody you

2240
01:29:04,490 --> 01:29:01,739
could play it ugly if that's possible

2241
01:29:07,129 --> 01:29:04,500
but it's just it is possible the fact

2242
01:29:09,470 --> 01:29:07,139
that you know somebody could would say

2243
01:29:12,649 --> 01:29:09,480
like I saw a castle in the sky and it's

2244
01:29:14,870 --> 01:29:12,659
like yeah sure okay whatever but then

2245
01:29:17,990 --> 01:29:14,880
when I look at these videos on YouTube

2246
01:29:19,669 --> 01:29:18,000
they are like because of the way the

2247
01:29:22,610 --> 01:29:19,679
atmospheric effects Stacks the

2248
01:29:25,610 --> 01:29:22,620
individual um it's like bars of the uh

2249
01:29:27,950 --> 01:29:25,620
object being uh projected it creates a

2250
01:29:29,930 --> 01:29:27,960
structured effect of like turrets in

2251
01:29:31,550 --> 01:29:29,940
quotes sometimes and so it looks like a

2252
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:31,560
structured object floating in the sky

2253
01:29:36,169 --> 01:29:34,080
and it's a real thing that people

2254
01:29:39,649 --> 01:29:36,179
actually see

2255
01:29:41,450 --> 01:29:39,659
so like that's kind of wild right yeah

2256
01:29:45,350 --> 01:29:41,460
so really uh come from the name of

2257
01:29:47,990 --> 01:29:45,360
Arthur's sister Morgan Morgan yes yes

2258
01:29:51,229 --> 01:29:48,000
that's right the uh

2259
01:29:53,090 --> 01:29:51,239
cool and every uh for anyone who's

2260
01:29:54,709 --> 01:29:53,100
tuning in that's my Discord username I

2261
01:29:56,570 --> 01:29:54,719
used to go to Morgana

2262
01:29:59,390 --> 01:29:56,580
um I just took it from the Verna Herzog

2263
01:30:01,370 --> 01:29:59,400
film but it's cool because it's inspired

2264
01:30:03,050 --> 01:30:01,380
a lot of a lot of people to make photo

2265
01:30:04,669 --> 01:30:03,060
Morgana comments and I found a lot of

2266
01:30:06,229 --> 01:30:04,679
random Indie albums that people have

2267
01:30:07,629 --> 01:30:06,239
sent me asking if it's like who is it

2268
01:30:10,310 --> 01:30:07,639
The Decemberists album or whatever

2269
01:30:12,530 --> 01:30:10,320
anyway yeah let me uh let me play this

2270
01:30:17,930 --> 01:30:12,540
video for you guys you can see right all

2271
01:30:25,250 --> 01:30:20,390
foreign

2272
01:30:25,260 --> 01:30:31,310
it's flying over the ocean very strange

2273
01:30:35,450 --> 01:30:32,810
I mean I would certainly think that was

2274
01:30:40,430 --> 01:30:35,460
a physical object if I didn't know about

2275
01:30:46,189 --> 01:30:42,950
a good couple of uh

2276
01:30:49,330 --> 01:30:46,199
examples of UFO where um boat lights in

2277
01:30:52,250 --> 01:30:49,340
the Horizon are doing this kind of uh

2278
01:30:54,410 --> 01:30:52,260
raised up above their what you perceive

2279
01:30:56,450 --> 01:30:54,420
at least as the Horizon yeah well the

2280
01:30:58,129 --> 01:30:56,460
atmosphere does a bunch of

2281
01:30:59,629 --> 01:30:58,139
I never knew about until I started

2282
01:31:01,790 --> 01:30:59,639
looking at this subject like even uh

2283
01:31:04,250 --> 01:31:01,800
like Jimmy Carter's uh UFO report that

2284
01:31:06,110 --> 01:31:04,260
he filed uh with uh was it Buffon or

2285
01:31:07,729 --> 01:31:06,120
something and it was uh in the same

2286
01:31:10,850 --> 01:31:07,739
place as Jupiter was supposed to be that

2287
01:31:12,350 --> 01:31:10,860
night and just like parallely frequently

2288
01:31:14,090 --> 01:31:12,360
people uh report Jupiter when they're

2289
01:31:16,970 --> 01:31:14,100
unusual atmospheric conditions because

2290
01:31:19,189 --> 01:31:16,980
like the atmosphere can serve as like a

2291
01:31:20,810 --> 01:31:19,199
lens and then you can kind of wobble it

2292
01:31:22,610 --> 01:31:20,820
back and forth and then it can like

2293
01:31:24,530 --> 01:31:22,620
magnify and so it looks like it's coming

2294
01:31:27,169 --> 01:31:24,540
at you looks like it's going away going

2295
01:31:30,770 --> 01:31:27,179
back and forth and it's like people just

2296
01:31:32,990 --> 01:31:30,780
need to know that that's a real effect

2297
01:31:34,490 --> 01:31:33,000
and then it immediately becomes the most

2298
01:31:36,649 --> 01:31:34,500
likely explanation anytime you see

2299
01:31:39,530 --> 01:31:36,659
something like that sure but I mean we

2300
01:31:41,930 --> 01:31:39,540
have we have this kind of uh cultural

2301
01:31:44,030 --> 01:31:41,940
concept where if you see especially

2302
01:31:46,669 --> 01:31:44,040
something like a luminous object in the

2303
01:31:50,090 --> 01:31:46,679
sky at night and it is not immediately

2304
01:31:52,910 --> 01:31:50,100
identifiable it is then a UFO like I've

2305
01:31:55,970 --> 01:31:52,920
known that since I was a kid right you

2306
01:31:57,350 --> 01:31:55,980
know luminous objects in this guy that

2307
01:31:58,910 --> 01:31:57,360
seem out of place they're doing

2308
01:32:01,250 --> 01:31:58,920
something strange that look unfamiliar

2309
01:32:02,450 --> 01:32:01,260
to me that's UFO that's Flying Saucer

2310
01:32:05,570 --> 01:32:02,460
and your brain kind of fills in those

2311
01:32:07,370 --> 01:32:05,580
gaps too to make it look like you when

2312
01:32:09,590 --> 01:32:07,380
you recall it it seems even more

2313
01:32:11,990 --> 01:32:09,600
otherworldly right because that's what

2314
01:32:14,810 --> 01:32:12,000
you are expecting that's kind of what

2315
01:32:18,110 --> 01:32:14,820
you're putting that on it

2316
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:19,850
this reminds me of this I'm going to go

2317
01:32:24,770 --> 01:32:22,080
way off the ranch here

2318
01:32:27,610 --> 01:32:24,780
um but I just I just read so I just

2319
01:32:30,470 --> 01:32:27,620
retweeted this academic article about

2320
01:32:33,430 --> 01:32:30,480
homuncular flexibility basically like

2321
01:32:37,070 --> 01:32:33,440
how the human mind

2322
01:32:39,890 --> 01:32:37,080
will adopt an integrate avatars and

2323
01:32:42,470 --> 01:32:39,900
thinking that these avatars are

2324
01:32:43,970 --> 01:32:42,480
literally extensions of the body a very

2325
01:32:48,229 --> 01:32:43,980
crude example of this I don't know if

2326
01:32:51,470 --> 01:32:48,239
you guys have seen the video of um

2327
01:32:52,970 --> 01:32:51,480
the ballot the hammer and the Rubber Arm

2328
01:32:55,610 --> 01:32:52,980
do you guys know what I'm talking about

2329
01:32:56,510 --> 01:32:55,620
no so the experiment setup is basically

2330
01:32:58,070 --> 01:32:56,520
like

2331
01:32:59,390 --> 01:32:58,080
is someone sitting at a table and they

2332
01:33:00,649 --> 01:32:59,400
have both their arms out kind of like

2333
01:33:02,090 --> 01:33:00,659
how I'm sitting

2334
01:33:02,810 --> 01:33:02,100
and

2335
01:33:05,930 --> 01:33:02,820
um

2336
01:33:08,209 --> 01:33:05,940
they're one arm there's a wall

2337
01:33:11,330 --> 01:33:08,219
so they can't actually see their arm and

2338
01:33:13,669 --> 01:33:11,340
they place a fake rubber arm in front

2339
01:33:16,370 --> 01:33:13,679
and what they'll do what the

2340
01:33:19,610 --> 01:33:16,380
experimenter will do is stimulate your

2341
01:33:21,110 --> 01:33:19,620
your real hands that you can see the one

2342
01:33:23,330 --> 01:33:21,120
that's still in your line of sight and

2343
01:33:24,830 --> 01:33:23,340
then also like stroke and stimulate the

2344
01:33:26,510 --> 01:33:24,840
rubber hand

2345
01:33:28,970 --> 01:33:26,520
and so let's do this for a few minutes

2346
01:33:30,590 --> 01:33:28,980
and then they'll smash the rubber hand

2347
01:33:32,169 --> 01:33:30,600
with the hammer and the person reacts

2348
01:33:35,270 --> 01:33:32,179
like they just got actually hit

2349
01:33:37,010 --> 01:33:35,280
interesting yeah and it ties I think a

2350
01:33:38,870 --> 01:33:37,020
lot of this ties into also like Phantom

2351
01:33:40,669 --> 01:33:38,880
limb pain which can be ameliorated by

2352
01:33:42,470 --> 01:33:40,679
introducing a mirror so if you have like

2353
01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:42,480
Phantom limping

2354
01:33:45,649 --> 01:33:43,920
um if you have an above the knee

2355
01:33:48,050 --> 01:33:45,659
amputation what they'll do for some of

2356
01:33:50,570 --> 01:33:48,060
the treatment to sort of help change how

2357
01:33:52,310 --> 01:33:50,580
your body or how your brain and mind

2358
01:33:53,810 --> 01:33:52,320
process uh the limit to the physical

2359
01:33:56,090 --> 01:33:53,820
limits of your body

2360
01:33:57,649 --> 01:33:56,100
this will put a mirror down

2361
01:33:58,910 --> 01:33:57,659
um so that when you look in the mirror

2362
01:34:00,350 --> 01:33:58,920
it still looks like you have your full

2363
01:34:02,810 --> 01:34:00,360
leg

2364
01:34:03,890 --> 01:34:02,820
um and I bring this up because I what I

2365
01:34:05,750 --> 01:34:03,900
what I

2366
01:34:07,430 --> 01:34:05,760
part of the reason I mean this I guess

2367
01:34:09,890 --> 01:34:07,440
tangentially touches on what we're

2368
01:34:12,410 --> 01:34:09,900
talking about with Father Morgana this

2369
01:34:15,890 --> 01:34:12,420
idea that like our brains are so much

2370
01:34:17,750 --> 01:34:15,900
more adaptive and plastic around

2371
01:34:19,250 --> 01:34:17,760
um how we kind of construct our

2372
01:34:21,229 --> 01:34:19,260
immediate surroundings in our

2373
01:34:22,490 --> 01:34:21,239
environment and so much of it obviously

2374
01:34:23,390 --> 01:34:22,500
is

2375
01:34:26,930 --> 01:34:23,400
um like

2376
01:34:29,450 --> 01:34:26,940
like either shaded in in your mind

2377
01:34:31,070 --> 01:34:29,460
um or just kind of like like your

2378
01:34:33,770 --> 01:34:31,080
brain's just drawing on a cache of

2379
01:34:35,810 --> 01:34:33,780
extant information to kind of constantly

2380
01:34:37,430 --> 01:34:35,820
create and recreate your most immediate

2381
01:34:39,229 --> 01:34:37,440
surroundings

2382
01:34:41,390 --> 01:34:39,239
um but yeah we should we should totally

2383
01:34:42,830 --> 01:34:41,400
do like a weird Brain Episode at some

2384
01:34:45,229 --> 01:34:42,840
point because I would love to talk about

2385
01:34:47,209 --> 01:34:45,239
this [\h__\h] this is like deep in my

2386
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:47,219
wheelhouse but yeah everyone should

2387
01:34:50,870 --> 01:34:48,960
scroll through my Twitter and check out

2388
01:34:52,250 --> 01:34:50,880
that homuncular flexibility article it's

2389
01:34:53,629 --> 01:34:52,260
pretty far out and look for the video

2390
01:34:56,030 --> 01:34:53,639
I'm talking about with a rubber hand

2391
01:34:59,030 --> 01:34:56,040
it's extremely cool and very strange

2392
01:35:00,530 --> 01:34:59,040
sounds cool yes

2393
01:35:02,629 --> 01:35:00,540
um Louise actually I just remembered I

2394
01:35:04,430 --> 01:35:02,639
was going to ask you uh while Nick was

2395
01:35:06,709 --> 01:35:04,440
briefly away

2396
01:35:09,110 --> 01:35:06,719
um uh when I was on strange Recon with

2397
01:35:10,910 --> 01:35:09,120
Jeff last week he mentioned uh rogue

2398
01:35:13,189 --> 01:35:10,920
waves briefly um and I think it's a

2399
01:35:15,169 --> 01:35:13,199
really neat story and since you are a

2400
01:35:17,330 --> 01:35:15,179
professional scientist I would love to

2401
01:35:19,970 --> 01:35:17,340
hear just sort of like your Takeaway on

2402
01:35:22,669 --> 01:35:19,980
what like we should do about things like

2403
01:35:24,709 --> 01:35:22,679
this so like with rogue waves there were

2404
01:35:26,810 --> 01:35:24,719
being reported for centuries

2405
01:35:28,790 --> 01:35:26,820
um and then modern physics models

2406
01:35:30,770 --> 01:35:28,800
calculated that the odds of a rogue wave

2407
01:35:32,570 --> 01:35:30,780
occurring was something like one in ten

2408
01:35:35,450 --> 01:35:32,580
thousand years so one event in ten

2409
01:35:37,610 --> 01:35:35,460
thousand years and so modern uh safety

2410
01:35:39,830 --> 01:35:37,620
standards were put to an average wave

2411
01:35:41,930 --> 01:35:39,840
height that's been verified and the

2412
01:35:45,590 --> 01:35:41,940
stories were discredited based on this

2413
01:35:49,010 --> 01:35:45,600
uh interpretations of smaller waves when

2414
01:35:51,530 --> 01:35:49,020
the European uh government launched

2415
01:35:54,110 --> 01:35:51,540
their ocean observing satellites in the

2416
01:35:56,030 --> 01:35:54,120
early 2000s they uh suddenly discovered

2417
01:35:58,850 --> 01:35:56,040
that multiple rogue waves were occurring

2418
01:36:01,790 --> 01:35:58,860
every year and so observations ended up

2419
01:36:04,729 --> 01:36:01,800
changing the modern uh the physics that

2420
01:36:07,310 --> 01:36:04,739
predicted the actual occurrence rate and

2421
01:36:10,010 --> 01:36:07,320
many science uh you know uh the uh

2422
01:36:11,450 --> 01:36:10,020
Sailors were valid I mean once again who

2423
01:36:13,490 --> 01:36:11,460
knows how many actually saw real ones

2424
01:36:15,890 --> 01:36:13,500
versus not but some degree of them got

2425
01:36:18,530 --> 01:36:15,900
validated what do we do with phenomena

2426
01:36:19,850 --> 01:36:18,540
like that Eloise um like and in that

2427
01:36:21,530 --> 01:36:19,860
case there was actually real safety

2428
01:36:23,629 --> 01:36:21,540
standards uh that had to be updated

2429
01:36:25,490 --> 01:36:23,639
immediately because of the risks of

2430
01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:25,500
these rogue waves occurring um what do

2431
01:36:29,350 --> 01:36:27,600
we do when there's no verification it's

2432
01:36:31,970 --> 01:36:29,360
just eyewitness stuff but there are real

2433
01:36:34,669 --> 01:36:31,980
implications to the underlying possible

2434
01:36:36,410 --> 01:36:34,679
phenomena being true

2435
01:36:39,770 --> 01:36:36,420
yeah

2436
01:36:45,970 --> 01:36:39,780
maybe just sweep it under the rug

2437
01:36:52,310 --> 01:36:49,669
the tough part right yeah yeah

2438
01:36:53,930 --> 01:36:52,320
I mean I guess if there are and this

2439
01:36:56,570 --> 01:36:53,940
sort of gets a little bit to the UAB

2440
01:36:58,490 --> 01:36:56,580
thing uh Saga going on now because

2441
01:37:01,129 --> 01:36:58,500
Pilots are reporting things that they've

2442
01:37:04,010 --> 01:37:01,139
seen or that they've interpreted a scene

2443
01:37:06,770 --> 01:37:04,020
um and that's possibly got some safety

2444
01:37:09,470 --> 01:37:06,780
implications right um if you have to

2445
01:37:12,169 --> 01:37:09,480
like swerve out of the way of you up you

2446
01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:12,179
know that's pretty alarming but um yeah

2447
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:15,840
I think like when human human

2448
01:37:22,370 --> 01:37:19,440
um safety is that is at play or at risk

2449
01:37:24,050 --> 01:37:22,380
um there should be a little bit more

2450
01:37:25,910 --> 01:37:24,060
but I don't want to say the rule should

2451
01:37:28,370 --> 01:37:25,920
be bent but um there should be a bit

2452
01:37:31,010 --> 01:37:28,380
more of a leeway in terms of

2453
01:37:33,830 --> 01:37:31,020
taking that seriously looking more into

2454
01:37:41,390 --> 01:37:36,050
that's fair

2455
01:37:46,550 --> 01:37:43,669
now um and I'll just follow up briefly

2456
01:37:48,709 --> 01:37:46,560
and then uh just uh yeah turn it over I

2457
01:37:49,850 --> 01:37:48,719
just wanted to very quickly run through

2458
01:37:52,370 --> 01:37:49,860
a few

2459
01:37:55,370 --> 01:37:52,380
um now this is a hard one to do because

2460
01:37:57,950 --> 01:37:55,380
it's like there is a verified history of

2461
01:37:59,330 --> 01:37:57,960
the uh like government classified

2462
01:38:01,310 --> 01:37:59,340
reports that have been formally

2463
01:38:04,669 --> 01:38:01,320
Declassified and are publicly available

2464
01:38:07,370 --> 01:38:04,679
now I do not know if the contents of

2465
01:38:09,530 --> 01:38:07,380
these reports are true or not I do not

2466
01:38:11,870 --> 01:38:09,540
think I I can't vouch for them what I

2467
01:38:13,970 --> 01:38:11,880
can vouch for is that they exist within

2468
01:38:15,770 --> 01:38:13,980
the uh archives and we know that uh you

2469
01:38:17,390 --> 01:38:15,780
know government uh leadership of various

2470
01:38:20,090 --> 01:38:17,400
agencies of various times we're briefed

2471
01:38:23,590 --> 01:38:20,100
on these uh document contents

2472
01:38:27,229 --> 01:38:23,600
so in like okay August CIA 50th August

2473
01:38:30,770 --> 01:38:27,239
1952 following the uh July uh Washington

2474
01:38:32,570 --> 01:38:30,780
uh DC UFO flyovers um these reports that

2475
01:38:35,169 --> 01:38:32,580
they were writing in preparation of the

2476
01:38:37,669 --> 01:38:35,179
1953 January Robertson annual report

2477
01:38:39,110 --> 01:38:37,679
they're going into atmospheric phenomena

2478
01:38:40,970 --> 01:38:39,120
our ignorance of the nature and

2479
01:38:42,649 --> 01:38:40,980
controlling factors is immense many of

2480
01:38:44,270 --> 01:38:42,659
the Unexplained sightings of UFOs may be

2481
01:38:45,410 --> 01:38:44,280
electromagnetic or electrostatic and

2482
01:38:47,930 --> 01:38:45,420
character Factor supporting this

2483
01:38:49,370 --> 01:38:47,940
hypothesis are absence of sound uh

2484
01:38:51,350 --> 01:38:49,380
phenomena apparently affected by shock

2485
01:38:53,450 --> 01:38:51,360
waves or electromagnetic radiation of

2486
01:38:55,010 --> 01:38:53,460
aircraft reports of erratic operation of

2487
01:38:57,890 --> 01:38:55,020
various kinds of instruments in the

2488
01:39:00,709 --> 01:38:57,900
vicinity blah blah blah uh so that's a

2489
01:39:03,590 --> 01:39:00,719
CIA memo in there and then we go into

2490
01:39:05,810 --> 01:39:03,600
USAF Project Blue Book final report mean

2491
01:39:07,510 --> 01:39:05,820
how did you say minute Air Force Base

2492
01:39:11,330 --> 01:39:07,520
1968.

2493
01:39:13,669 --> 01:39:11,340
Paige why not yeah conclusion page eight

2494
01:39:16,189 --> 01:39:13,679
the classified U.S Air Force report

2495
01:39:18,169 --> 01:39:16,199
plasmas can affect electrical Opera

2496
01:39:19,790 --> 01:39:18,179
equipment and can also be painted on

2497
01:39:21,590 --> 01:39:19,800
radar plasmas such as while lightning

2498
01:39:23,390 --> 01:39:21,600
can occur in clear weather as well as

2499
01:39:25,010 --> 01:39:23,400
Stormy Weather plasmas such as ball

2500
01:39:26,810 --> 01:39:25,020
lightning can be seen visually and

2501
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:26,820
appear as a fiery ball the most common

2502
01:39:31,790 --> 01:39:28,320
collars are red orange yellow blah blah

2503
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:31,800
blah so uh and then they say um

2504
01:39:36,890 --> 01:39:34,800
let's see here where does it say okay

2505
01:39:39,110 --> 01:39:36,900
yeah the radar contact and temporary

2506
01:39:40,550 --> 01:39:39,120
loss of transmission ultra high

2507
01:39:42,470 --> 01:39:40,560
frequency transmission could be

2508
01:39:43,490 --> 01:39:42,480
attributed to a plasma similar to ball

2509
01:39:45,110 --> 01:39:43,500
lightning

2510
01:39:46,490 --> 01:39:45,120
uh so anyway they're just going into it

2511
01:39:48,169 --> 01:39:46,500
I think it's ball lightning doing these

2512
01:39:50,270 --> 01:39:48,179
electronic interference stuffs that's

2513
01:39:52,250 --> 01:39:50,280
the US Air Force and then we have the UK

2514
01:39:53,930 --> 01:39:52,260
Ministry of Defense report from 2000

2515
01:39:57,110 --> 01:39:53,940
that the BBC told us the top leadership

2516
01:39:58,850 --> 01:39:57,120
read the thing say the thing oh God uh

2517
01:40:00,830 --> 01:39:58,860
that UAP exists is indisputable

2518
01:40:02,390 --> 01:40:00,840
accredited with ability to take off land

2519
01:40:05,990 --> 01:40:02,400
accelerate to exceptional velocities and

2520
01:40:08,229 --> 01:40:06,000
vanish they can outmaneuver any known uh

2521
01:40:11,209 --> 01:40:08,239
aircraft or missile man they're unmanned

2522
01:40:14,209 --> 01:40:11,219
yes so thank you it's a little off but

2523
01:40:16,910 --> 01:40:14,219
uh I haven't been getting it down but um

2524
01:40:19,610 --> 01:40:16,920
yeah okay so page 10 of the executive

2525
01:40:21,590 --> 01:40:19,620
summary of this report that the BBC News

2526
01:40:23,810 --> 01:40:21,600
reported top leadership at the ministry

2527
01:40:25,850 --> 01:40:23,820
of defense was briefed on in 2000 the

2528
01:40:27,649 --> 01:40:25,860
close proximity of plasma-related fields

2529
01:40:29,870 --> 01:40:27,659
can adversely affect a vehicle or person

2530
01:40:31,310 --> 01:40:29,880
for this to occur the UAP must be

2531
01:40:33,649 --> 01:40:31,320
encountered at very close ranges

2532
01:40:35,450 --> 01:40:33,659
probable modulated magnetic electric or

2533
01:40:37,370 --> 01:40:35,460
electromagnetic effect appears to

2534
01:40:40,310 --> 01:40:37,380
emanate from some of these buoyant

2535
01:40:41,689 --> 01:40:40,320
charged masses they say UAP exists is

2536
01:40:43,970 --> 01:40:41,699
indisputable they say they are almost

2537
01:40:45,470 --> 01:40:43,980
certain that they are ball lightning and

2538
01:40:47,090 --> 01:40:45,480
then they just go into like all these

2539
01:40:49,729 --> 01:40:47,100
other things some people are maybe more

2540
01:40:52,550 --> 01:40:49,739
susceptible to Fields they uh you know

2541
01:40:54,770 --> 01:40:52,560
anyway so we have all these Declassified

2542
01:40:57,110 --> 01:40:54,780
internal government reports saying that

2543
01:40:58,669 --> 01:40:57,120
top leadership or at least some level of

2544
01:41:00,110 --> 01:40:58,679
leadership in these agencies have

2545
01:41:02,090 --> 01:41:00,120
historically repeatedly been briefed

2546
01:41:03,350 --> 01:41:02,100
that ball lightning exists UFOs are ball

2547
01:41:04,790 --> 01:41:03,360
lightning and ball lightning produces

2548
01:41:06,590 --> 01:41:04,800
these electromagnetic effects on

2549
01:41:09,290 --> 01:41:06,600
electronics and [\h__\h]

2550
01:41:10,310 --> 01:41:09,300
we don't know that in the public realm I

2551
01:41:11,930 --> 01:41:10,320
don't know that I don't know if these

2552
01:41:14,090 --> 01:41:11,940
reports are true or not there's this

2553
01:41:16,010 --> 01:41:14,100
long history of these government reports

2554
01:41:18,169 --> 01:41:16,020
saying ball lightning Us in the public

2555
01:41:20,030 --> 01:41:18,179
only 2014 it got verified

2556
01:41:21,590 --> 01:41:20,040
like what what do we do with that why

2557
01:41:25,310 --> 01:41:21,600
like

2558
01:41:27,350 --> 01:41:25,320
we nowadays we uh we step back and uh

2559
01:41:29,330 --> 01:41:27,360
say like we don't know we don't know we

2560
01:41:32,330 --> 01:41:29,340
don't because that you know it's a good

2561
01:41:33,950 --> 01:41:32,340
way to do it in many respects but then

2562
01:41:35,450 --> 01:41:33,960
historically the government was actually

2563
01:41:37,070 --> 01:41:35,460
saying while lightning ball lightning

2564
01:41:38,990 --> 01:41:37,080
and they were attributing these

2565
01:41:41,510 --> 01:41:39,000
electromagnetic effects and the causes

2566
01:41:43,370 --> 01:41:41,520
to electromagnetic effects inside the

2567
01:41:44,689 --> 01:41:43,380
government so what the heck's going on

2568
01:41:47,629 --> 01:41:44,699
there well we I don't know if those

2569
01:41:50,330 --> 01:41:47,639
reports are uh you know really like

2570
01:41:52,490 --> 01:41:50,340
telling true things like the reporting

2571
01:41:54,649 --> 01:41:52,500
suggests they are like believing that

2572
01:41:55,550 --> 01:41:54,659
they are saying true things

2573
01:41:57,830 --> 01:41:55,560
um

2574
01:42:00,350 --> 01:41:57,840
just a stunning thing right where

2575
01:42:02,570 --> 01:42:00,360
there's no evidence in the public realm

2576
01:42:03,950 --> 01:42:02,580
that any of us can find that ball

2577
01:42:05,870 --> 01:42:03,960
lightning produces these effects on

2578
01:42:07,430 --> 01:42:05,880
vehicles right

2579
01:42:09,530 --> 01:42:07,440
and yet there's the government report

2580
01:42:11,090 --> 01:42:09,540
saying that from decades and decades ago

2581
01:42:12,830 --> 01:42:11,100
right what would we do with that as

2582
01:42:14,390 --> 01:42:12,840
Skeptics what the heck do we do with

2583
01:42:15,530 --> 01:42:14,400
that just throw it all out I guess but

2584
01:42:17,629 --> 01:42:15,540
then

2585
01:42:19,609 --> 01:42:17,639
the UK report says ball lightning can

2586
01:42:21,169 --> 01:42:19,619
come close to a person and like pump

2587
01:42:23,209 --> 01:42:21,179
electromagnetic energy through our

2588
01:42:24,709 --> 01:42:23,219
bodies and cause us harm and make us

2589
01:42:26,450 --> 01:42:24,719
hallucinate and that's what they're

2590
01:42:27,830 --> 01:42:26,460
telling their leadership

2591
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:27,840
I don't know if that's true or not that

2592
01:42:32,209 --> 01:42:29,760
sounds insane and we have no evidence

2593
01:42:33,709 --> 01:42:32,219
that that's real right if that's a

2594
01:42:35,450 --> 01:42:33,719
threat to humans what the heck are we

2595
01:42:37,189 --> 01:42:35,460
doing here that's what I'm trying to get

2596
01:42:39,350 --> 01:42:37,199
out here it's like what are we doing

2597
01:42:42,370 --> 01:42:39,360
here is it rogue waves is it not like

2598
01:42:46,310 --> 01:42:42,380
what is this

2599
01:42:49,070 --> 01:42:46,320
side of Campbell this is great well I

2600
01:42:51,649 --> 01:42:49,080
mean the Robertson panel obviously

2601
01:42:53,390 --> 01:42:51,659
predates the uh the level in case but I

2602
01:42:55,669 --> 01:42:53,400
showed you the the Blue Book documents

2603
01:42:59,209 --> 01:42:55,679
where they explicitly said it was ball

2604
01:43:01,189 --> 01:42:59,219
lightning or St Elmo's Fire that uh that

2605
01:43:02,990 --> 01:43:01,199
caused these electrical effects and we

2606
01:43:04,669 --> 01:43:03,000
still don't have evidence to demonstrate

2607
01:43:06,649 --> 01:43:04,679
this please or at least describe the

2608
01:43:09,229 --> 01:43:06,659
mechanism by which that this is

2609
01:43:11,090 --> 01:43:09,239
happening right you're like you

2610
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:11,100
wouldn't necessarily have to demonstrate

2611
01:43:14,689 --> 01:43:13,920
it if you could explain how

2612
01:43:16,790 --> 01:43:14,699
um

2613
01:43:18,470 --> 01:43:16,800
maybe I wouldn't understand it reading

2614
01:43:21,109 --> 01:43:18,480
it but it's it's not there for me to

2615
01:43:23,450 --> 01:43:21,119
read this is essentially yeah I'm I'm

2616
01:43:24,649 --> 01:43:23,460
agreeing with you it's interesting I and

2617
01:43:26,870 --> 01:43:24,659
and

2618
01:43:29,590 --> 01:43:26,880
the UK report talking about uh

2619
01:43:32,870 --> 01:43:29,600
biological effects from from uh electric

2620
01:43:35,510 --> 01:43:32,880
uh electromagnetic fields

2621
01:43:36,890 --> 01:43:35,520
is that based on passenger's work is

2622
01:43:39,169 --> 01:43:36,900
that where this idea is coming from

2623
01:43:41,330 --> 01:43:39,179
that's an excellent point Nick because

2624
01:43:44,450 --> 01:43:41,340
you're right the UK Minister of Defense

2625
01:43:47,290 --> 01:43:44,460
report says uh medical effects have been

2626
01:43:49,430 --> 01:43:47,300
uh proven uh to be caused uh by

2627
01:43:52,609 --> 01:43:49,440
electromagnetic magnetism on the human

2628
01:43:54,169 --> 01:43:52,619
body they cite per singer's work and we

2629
01:43:55,310 --> 01:43:54,179
have talked specifically about how that

2630
01:43:58,010 --> 01:43:55,320
hasn't been

2631
01:44:00,290 --> 01:43:58,020
um uh verified no they say it's proven

2632
01:44:03,050 --> 01:44:00,300
but we now like in the public realm it's

2633
01:44:05,390 --> 01:44:03,060
not verified proven is a strong word and

2634
01:44:06,950 --> 01:44:05,400
it's a word I've come across for a long

2635
01:44:08,810 --> 01:44:06,960
time dealing with the Paranormal and

2636
01:44:10,370 --> 01:44:08,820
it's uh it's a word that's caused me to

2637
01:44:12,350 --> 01:44:10,380
walk away from it it's it's a very

2638
01:44:12,890 --> 01:44:12,360
strong word

2639
01:44:16,310 --> 01:44:12,900
um

2640
01:44:18,890 --> 01:44:16,320
like person person just work person what

2641
01:44:22,430 --> 01:44:18,900
he was working on it could be true all

2642
01:44:25,970 --> 01:44:22,440
these reports could be true but uh we

2643
01:44:28,669 --> 01:44:25,980
can't conclude that right especially me

2644
01:44:31,390 --> 01:44:28,679
as a Layman but uh you know us just as

2645
01:44:33,770 --> 01:44:31,400
Citizens can't necessarily conclude it

2646
01:44:35,450 --> 01:44:33,780
may maybe there's government reports

2647
01:44:37,370 --> 01:44:35,460
where they they have done that and it's

2648
01:44:39,350 --> 01:44:37,380
documented there and that's how they

2649
01:44:41,450 --> 01:44:39,360
feel so Justified using these

2650
01:44:43,129 --> 01:44:41,460
explanations

2651
01:44:45,050 --> 01:44:43,139
um I will say on the other hand the the

2652
01:44:47,649 --> 01:44:45,060
blue book The Blue Book investigation of

2653
01:44:51,410 --> 01:44:47,659
the levellins case was really sloppy

2654
01:44:52,850 --> 01:44:51,420
just as it was uh extremely sloppy with

2655
01:44:55,850 --> 01:44:52,860
the Dexter Michigan and Hillsdale

2656
01:44:56,810 --> 01:44:55,860
Michigan cases in 66.

2657
01:44:58,609 --> 01:44:56,820
um

2658
01:45:01,070 --> 01:44:58,619
I don't know how how hard they were

2659
01:45:03,770 --> 01:45:01,080
trying so maybe they just wrote that you

2660
01:45:06,410 --> 01:45:03,780
know and then uh this it's like

2661
01:45:08,209 --> 01:45:06,420
institutional memory almost right where

2662
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:08,219
uh that gets written about and then the

2663
01:45:12,050 --> 01:45:10,080
next report they're like oh well ball

2664
01:45:13,490 --> 01:45:12,060
lightning calls that level in case this

2665
01:45:15,470 --> 01:45:13,500
would this one was ball lightning too

2666
01:45:16,910 --> 01:45:15,480
and it's just kind of snowballed from

2667
01:45:18,530 --> 01:45:16,920
there

2668
01:45:19,970 --> 01:45:18,540
um yeah but a way around that is

2669
01:45:22,250 --> 01:45:19,980
demonstrating or at least explaining the

2670
01:45:24,950 --> 01:45:22,260
mechanism of which how this is happening

2671
01:45:27,709 --> 01:45:24,960
how an electromagnetic field is

2672
01:45:29,570 --> 01:45:27,719
disrupting an engine for instance

2673
01:45:31,370 --> 01:45:29,580
because

2674
01:45:33,890 --> 01:45:31,380
yeah there's a lot there's a lot of

2675
01:45:36,169 --> 01:45:33,900
reference to that I just haven't seen

2676
01:45:37,490 --> 01:45:36,179
the mechanism it's weird

2677
01:45:40,430 --> 01:45:37,500
it's real weird

2678
01:45:42,830 --> 01:45:40,440
it is very strange could it be that the

2679
01:45:45,709 --> 01:45:42,840
um the reason that the CIA and others

2680
01:45:48,290 --> 01:45:45,719
were talking about uh ball lightning is

2681
01:45:49,370 --> 01:45:48,300
is because they were privy to Soviet

2682
01:45:51,649 --> 01:45:49,380
um

2683
01:45:53,689 --> 01:45:51,659
maybe not advances because like Soviet

2684
01:45:55,310 --> 01:45:53,699
science was kind of wild

2685
01:45:56,750 --> 01:45:55,320
um you have to take it with a grain of

2686
01:46:00,290 --> 01:45:56,760
salt but they were

2687
01:46:02,270 --> 01:46:00,300
kind of looking into that aspect as well

2688
01:46:05,930 --> 01:46:02,280
um maybe the CIA was like inadvertently

2689
01:46:08,450 --> 01:46:05,940
influenced by uh Soviet Union whereas

2690
01:46:10,669 --> 01:46:08,460
like the U.S scientists are not sort of

2691
01:46:12,890 --> 01:46:10,679
so much into that so like there's that

2692
01:46:14,209 --> 01:46:12,900
disconnect between the intelligence

2693
01:46:17,570 --> 01:46:14,219
community and

2694
01:46:20,209 --> 01:46:17,580
you know yeah that's a very astute

2695
01:46:22,250 --> 01:46:20,219
observation interesting

2696
01:46:23,990 --> 01:46:22,260
well it's a good point and the uh the

2697
01:46:25,189 --> 01:46:24,000
earliest uh well not the earliest one of

2698
01:46:27,109 --> 01:46:25,199
the earliest records we have from the

2699
01:46:31,129 --> 01:46:27,119
FEI protection of vital installations

2700
01:46:33,530 --> 01:46:31,139
Memo from 1949 they uh describe a

2701
01:46:34,790 --> 01:46:33,540
phenomena that the later reports the

2702
01:46:36,229 --> 01:46:34,800
tribute to ball lighting but they say I

2703
01:46:38,030 --> 01:46:36,239
don't know what the Optics are and then

2704
01:46:41,209 --> 01:46:38,040
they attribute them potentially to the

2705
01:46:43,490 --> 01:46:41,219
Soviet Union uh you know based on uh the

2706
01:46:46,430 --> 01:46:43,500
Soviet version of operation pay-per-clip

2707
01:46:47,930 --> 01:46:46,440
getting this German scientist to build

2708
01:46:49,430 --> 01:46:47,940
these super weapons that are now flying

2709
01:46:51,109 --> 01:46:49,440
over the United States so they didn't

2710
01:46:53,030 --> 01:46:51,119
know and then the follow-up project

2711
01:46:55,729 --> 01:46:53,040
Twinkle by the US Air Force once they

2712
01:46:57,950 --> 01:46:55,739
got the dossier they cite exactly that

2713
01:47:00,470 --> 01:46:57,960
they say uh the Soviets are hard at work

2714
01:47:02,209 --> 01:47:00,480
on the study of fireballs uh we

2715
01:47:05,090 --> 01:47:02,219
recommend this report stay classified

2716
01:47:08,390 --> 01:47:05,100
provided reasons we believe the uh

2717
01:47:10,310 --> 01:47:08,400
phenomena uh or uh it cites uh Dr Kaplan

2718
01:47:13,250 --> 01:47:10,320
from Oak Ridge he was the top physicist

2719
01:47:15,470 --> 01:47:13,260
there he said the the Fireballs are

2720
01:47:17,330 --> 01:47:15,480
natural phenomena

2721
01:47:19,430 --> 01:47:17,340
um so so and then that moving forward

2722
01:47:21,950 --> 01:47:19,440
the uh implication within the documents

2723
01:47:24,709 --> 01:47:21,960
once again you know I can't

2724
01:47:26,510 --> 01:47:24,719
I don't know if the documents um contain

2725
01:47:27,530 --> 01:47:26,520
correct information or not but we do

2726
01:47:29,450 --> 01:47:27,540
know is that they're saying these things

2727
01:47:31,729 --> 01:47:29,460
in the document so from then on they

2728
01:47:33,470 --> 01:47:31,739
start progressively uh leaning into this

2729
01:47:36,109 --> 01:47:33,480
ball lightning interpretation until the

2730
01:47:37,850 --> 01:47:36,119
Robertson panel report 1953 they

2731
01:47:41,330 --> 01:47:37,860
actually start citing a geophysicist

2732
01:47:44,570 --> 01:47:41,340
UCLA David T Griggs geophysicists now

2733
01:47:47,030 --> 01:47:44,580
are one of the major physics Fields who

2734
01:47:48,950 --> 01:47:47,040
um actively study uh these plasma

2735
01:47:50,750 --> 01:47:48,960
phenomena because they they're one of

2736
01:47:53,090 --> 01:47:50,760
the few areas that recognize that the

2737
01:47:54,470 --> 01:47:53,100
energy is available uh in the Earth's

2738
01:47:56,510 --> 01:47:54,480
atmosphere to produce these phenomena

2739
01:47:57,770 --> 01:47:56,520
and it's not even questioned within the

2740
01:47:59,330 --> 01:47:57,780
geophysics community that these

2741
01:48:00,410 --> 01:47:59,340
phenomena exist the question is what

2742
01:48:02,450 --> 01:48:00,420
mechanism by which they are

2743
01:48:04,189 --> 01:48:02,460
self-contained right um so David T

2744
01:48:06,229 --> 01:48:04,199
Griggs geophysicist he was a co-founder

2745
01:48:07,790 --> 01:48:06,239
of Rand and he was cited in by the CIA

2746
01:48:11,030 --> 01:48:07,800
in their classified panel report and

2747
01:48:13,669 --> 01:48:11,040
he's saying we believe these are like a

2748
01:48:15,350 --> 01:48:13,679
natural phenomena we think that he says

2749
01:48:18,109 --> 01:48:15,360
we believe that the mechanism by which

2750
01:48:19,669 --> 01:48:18,119
they form is within the uh peripheries

2751
01:48:21,410 --> 01:48:19,679
of known science

2752
01:48:23,629 --> 01:48:21,420
um so if they're wrong like they could

2753
01:48:25,669 --> 01:48:23,639
be wrong Maybe be uh you know UFOs are

2754
01:48:27,470 --> 01:48:25,679
like non-human intelligence stuff

2755
01:48:29,330 --> 01:48:27,480
the reports seem to indicate pretty

2756
01:48:31,070 --> 01:48:29,340
clearly that the government has believed

2757
01:48:33,890 --> 01:48:31,080
and they could be wrong but for many

2758
01:48:35,209 --> 01:48:33,900
years that ball lightning is these are

2759
01:48:36,770 --> 01:48:35,219
producing these effects are flying

2760
01:48:38,450 --> 01:48:36,780
around and stuff I don't know if that's

2761
01:48:40,250 --> 01:48:38,460
true or not that I mean I don't know if

2762
01:48:43,010 --> 01:48:40,260
that's actually what's happening or not

2763
01:48:44,030 --> 01:48:43,020
but uh I can say definitively that the

2764
01:48:45,709 --> 01:48:44,040
government has been internally

2765
01:48:47,689 --> 01:48:45,719
circulating this kind of report for many

2766
01:48:49,430 --> 01:48:47,699
many years and uh it's stunning to me as

2767
01:48:53,090 --> 01:48:49,440
a skeptic

2768
01:48:55,310 --> 01:48:53,100
to try to Grapple with what the heck is

2769
01:48:57,470 --> 01:48:55,320
being discussed right because

2770
01:48:59,149 --> 01:48:57,480
what do we do with that if

2771
01:49:00,950 --> 01:48:59,159
something I've been cons I mean I guess

2772
01:49:03,950 --> 01:49:00,960
I'm kind of going on but you know my own

2773
01:49:05,750 --> 01:49:03,960
identity as a skeptic if um if it's

2774
01:49:07,970 --> 01:49:05,760
verified that these ball Lightnings are

2775
01:49:09,050 --> 01:49:07,980
coming at cars and turning them off at

2776
01:49:11,870 --> 01:49:09,060
some point

2777
01:49:14,209 --> 01:49:11,880
that's not going to be great for uh even

2778
01:49:16,970 --> 01:49:14,219
though science is valid as a formalized

2779
01:49:19,310 --> 01:49:16,980
method of producing the most uh likely

2780
01:49:23,689 --> 01:49:19,320
ex predictions

2781
01:49:26,209 --> 01:49:23,699
like people are going to look badly at

2782
01:49:28,970 --> 01:49:26,219
science and I I think we can get ahead

2783
01:49:32,830 --> 01:49:28,980
of it but right now I'm wrestling with

2784
01:49:38,030 --> 01:49:35,270
does that just sound crazy you guys tell

2785
01:49:39,129 --> 01:49:38,040
me am I sounding too far into the woo uh

2786
01:49:41,930 --> 01:49:39,139
yeah

2787
01:49:44,209 --> 01:49:41,940
I mean Bruce nice man the water is

2788
01:49:45,770 --> 01:49:44,219
Pleasant we'd love to have you you're

2789
01:49:47,270 --> 01:49:45,780
not talking Wu you know what I mean

2790
01:49:48,890 --> 01:49:47,280
because well I'm pretty sure I just

2791
01:49:52,090 --> 01:49:48,900
ended any chances of uh running for

2792
01:49:57,290 --> 01:49:52,100
public office with that little uh

2793
01:50:02,750 --> 01:49:59,810
I don't know well like once someone

2794
01:50:05,750 --> 01:50:02,760
demonstrates this then

2795
01:50:08,209 --> 01:50:05,760
we're good right or if someone

2796
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:08,219
replicates person just work which that

2797
01:50:11,570 --> 01:50:10,080
would be cool right I'd be really

2798
01:50:13,370 --> 01:50:11,580
interested in that I think more people

2799
01:50:15,109 --> 01:50:13,380
need to be working on the god Helmet or

2800
01:50:15,790 --> 01:50:15,119
whatever

2801
01:50:18,590 --> 01:50:15,800
um

2802
01:50:21,709 --> 01:50:18,600
I want to have you seen that guy from

2803
01:50:23,689 --> 01:50:21,719
the tarot Museum who built like it's

2804
01:50:25,669 --> 01:50:23,699
basically a god helmet but it's like DIY

2805
01:50:27,770 --> 01:50:25,679
it's like 50 bucks and a soldering iron

2806
01:50:30,350 --> 01:50:27,780
and you can build it yourself box oh

2807
01:50:32,090 --> 01:50:30,360
let's do that gonna work dude I've been

2808
01:50:39,370 --> 01:50:32,100
thinking about doing it and do we could

2809
01:50:44,149 --> 01:50:42,050
once we get enough audience members and

2810
01:50:45,950 --> 01:50:44,159
super chats I'll ring something up so if

2811
01:50:47,629 --> 01:50:45,960
people people can manipulate the god

2812
01:50:49,729 --> 01:50:47,639
helmet will I wear it based on how much

2813
01:50:54,050 --> 01:50:49,739
money they give in the Super Chat

2814
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:54,060
I don't know it's getting real yeah

2815
01:50:59,270 --> 01:50:57,360
I don't remember my version of only fans

2816
01:51:01,010 --> 01:50:59,280
I don't remember if it was Mary roach's

2817
01:51:02,629 --> 01:51:01,020
spook or if it was Stacey Horn's

2818
01:51:05,330 --> 01:51:02,639
unbelievable but in one of those I

2819
01:51:07,430 --> 01:51:05,340
believe the author wore the god helmet

2820
01:51:09,410 --> 01:51:07,440
and had something it spooked by Mary

2821
01:51:11,570 --> 01:51:09,420
Rose okay yeah because I've read that

2822
01:51:12,709 --> 01:51:11,580
and I just read the Stacey horn book a

2823
01:51:14,510 --> 01:51:12,719
couple months ago and she doesn't talk

2824
01:51:16,850 --> 01:51:14,520
about that okay so it was spook yeah

2825
01:51:19,310 --> 01:51:16,860
didn't she have an experience yeah yeah

2826
01:51:21,709 --> 01:51:19,320
sure yeah she talked about it yeah

2827
01:51:23,450 --> 01:51:21,719
presence

2828
01:51:25,189 --> 01:51:23,460
um I mean it's really interesting I've

2829
01:51:27,350 --> 01:51:25,199
always thought it was interesting

2830
01:51:29,390 --> 01:51:27,360
um I would like to see some other people

2831
01:51:31,550 --> 01:51:29,400
um do some work on that too that'd be

2832
01:51:33,890 --> 01:51:31,560
really really cool

2833
01:51:36,169 --> 01:51:33,900
one of one of the big things so the

2834
01:51:37,250 --> 01:51:36,179
other kind of Twitter Community I sit in

2835
01:51:40,070 --> 01:51:37,260
besides

2836
01:51:42,830 --> 01:51:40,080
UFO Twitter though I'm furiously trying

2837
01:51:43,550 --> 01:51:42,840
to paddle away from that Maelstrom

2838
01:51:45,050 --> 01:51:43,560
um

2839
01:51:46,910 --> 01:51:45,060
one of the one of the things kind of

2840
01:51:49,790 --> 01:51:46,920
making the rounds right now

2841
01:51:53,090 --> 01:51:49,800
um are people especially like people

2842
01:51:56,030 --> 01:51:53,100
that I would qualify as rationalists

2843
01:51:58,430 --> 01:51:56,040
like your classic computer toucher crowd

2844
01:52:00,770 --> 01:51:58,440
getting really into the genres and the

2845
01:52:02,629 --> 01:52:00,780
genres or meditative states that induce

2846
01:52:04,930 --> 01:52:02,639
altered Consciousness like especially

2847
01:52:07,790 --> 01:52:04,940
extremely Blissful altered Consciousness

2848
01:52:08,930 --> 01:52:07,800
and it has

2849
01:52:10,850 --> 01:52:08,940
um it's first of all it's been very

2850
01:52:13,010 --> 01:52:10,860
interesting watching this kind of milia

2851
01:52:14,570 --> 01:52:13,020
if people get into something that they

2852
01:52:17,689 --> 01:52:14,580
had previously dismissed as being like

2853
01:52:20,030 --> 01:52:17,699
bogus or horseshit or to woo but what's

2854
01:52:22,310 --> 01:52:20,040
also fascinating is the outgrowth of

2855
01:52:24,050 --> 01:52:22,320
like Technical Solutions to help

2856
01:52:26,770 --> 01:52:24,060
navigate and induce these things so

2857
01:52:28,850 --> 01:52:26,780
there's a company called Journey

2858
01:52:31,310 --> 01:52:28,860
j-h-o-u-r-n-e-y that's building

2859
01:52:33,890 --> 01:52:31,320
basically a TMS like a similar to like

2860
01:52:35,930 --> 01:52:33,900
amuse head headband to measure and

2861
01:52:38,990 --> 01:52:35,940
provide feedback on

2862
01:52:41,810 --> 01:52:39,000
um like brain waves and uh electrical

2863
01:52:44,030 --> 01:52:41,820
activity to help in like basically

2864
01:52:45,950 --> 01:52:44,040
accelerate and improve the depth types

2865
01:52:47,390 --> 01:52:45,960
of people's experiences in the genic

2866
01:52:48,050 --> 01:52:47,400
States

2867
01:52:50,090 --> 01:52:48,060
um

2868
01:52:51,590 --> 01:52:50,100
it's super cool Janet meditation is

2869
01:52:52,970 --> 01:52:51,600
awesome if anyone ever wants to talk

2870
01:52:55,310 --> 01:52:52,980
about all the weird stuff you can make

2871
01:52:58,490 --> 01:52:55,320
your brain do without psychedelics my

2872
01:53:01,370 --> 01:52:58,500
DMs are open uh what do you attribute

2873
01:53:07,790 --> 01:53:01,380
that move towards uh the that practice

2874
01:53:14,330 --> 01:53:12,050
getting high and that like they that it

2875
01:53:16,490 --> 01:53:14,340
basically gives you it's like holotropic

2876
01:53:18,890 --> 01:53:16,500
breath work like it gives you kind of a

2877
01:53:21,830 --> 01:53:18,900
way to get high or experience an altered

2878
01:53:23,870 --> 01:53:21,840
state without the trappings of exogenous

2879
01:53:26,390 --> 01:53:23,880
chemicals of any kind

2880
01:53:28,669 --> 01:53:26,400
but I think the other thing is it is

2881
01:53:31,129 --> 01:53:28,679
readily the practice like Janna practice

2882
01:53:31,729 --> 01:53:31,139
and access concentration

2883
01:53:34,129 --> 01:53:31,739
um

2884
01:53:35,990 --> 01:53:34,139
is accessible to virtually anyone you

2885
01:53:38,750 --> 01:53:36,000
just have to do it you just have to sit

2886
01:53:41,330 --> 01:53:38,760
down and meditate for you know 20 to 30

2887
01:53:43,370 --> 01:53:41,340
minutes every day for I mean some people

2888
01:53:45,109 --> 01:53:43,380
access the first and second genre in

2889
01:53:46,729 --> 01:53:45,119
just a week of sustained practice and

2890
01:53:48,290 --> 01:53:46,739
some people it'll take a few months but

2891
01:53:50,390 --> 01:53:48,300
it's pretty consistent that people can

2892
01:53:52,669 --> 01:53:50,400
access these states

2893
01:53:55,729 --> 01:53:52,679
um and I think there's that sense of

2894
01:53:59,270 --> 01:53:55,739
well being a quote-unquote rationalist

2895
01:54:01,970 --> 01:53:59,280
or skeptic or whatever people are also

2896
01:54:03,709 --> 01:54:01,980
drawn into the personal experimentation

2897
01:54:05,030 --> 01:54:03,719
associated with it

2898
01:54:06,590 --> 01:54:05,040
because the biggest thing you have to

2899
01:54:08,689 --> 01:54:06,600
lose is okay then you have a meditation

2900
01:54:11,209 --> 01:54:08,699
practice which by and large is a pretty

2901
01:54:12,830 --> 01:54:11,219
positive Habit to maintain even if

2902
01:54:14,209 --> 01:54:12,840
you're not accessing these expansive

2903
01:54:14,950 --> 01:54:14,219
States

2904
01:54:18,530 --> 01:54:14,960
um

2905
01:54:20,350 --> 01:54:18,540
but uh I was the the book that everybody

2906
01:54:23,750 --> 01:54:20,360
reads on this is by Lee brossington

2907
01:54:25,970 --> 01:54:23,760
about genres but Steven Snyder also has

2908
01:54:27,890 --> 01:54:25,980
a really great book on it and it is

2909
01:54:30,290 --> 01:54:27,900
literally like reading like a car

2910
01:54:31,930 --> 01:54:30,300
mechanic manual like it's like this is

2911
01:54:34,609 --> 01:54:31,940
how you sit this is what you think about

2912
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:34,619
and keep doing it and eventually you'll

2913
01:54:38,750 --> 01:54:36,719
be like holy [\h__\h] this is extremely

2914
01:54:42,410 --> 01:54:38,760
Blissful and expansive

2915
01:54:44,209 --> 01:54:42,420
I man I cannot force myself to think

2916
01:54:46,070 --> 01:54:44,219
about one topic like that I wonder if

2917
01:54:48,590 --> 01:54:46,080
this would even I could even get into

2918
01:54:51,109 --> 01:54:48,600
these sort of things my mind is like a

2919
01:54:53,030 --> 01:54:51,119
beehive all the time yeah yeah mine is

2920
01:54:55,010 --> 01:54:53,040
too that's that's why I take medication

2921
01:54:56,450 --> 01:54:55,020
but that's also literally why I do so

2922
01:54:58,370 --> 01:54:56,460
much meditation

2923
01:54:59,990 --> 01:54:58,380
um and breath work because I've realized

2924
01:55:02,270 --> 01:55:00,000
that

2925
01:55:04,189 --> 01:55:02,280
um I'm certainly not projecting onto you

2926
01:55:07,250 --> 01:55:04,199
I'm not suggesting that this will solve

2927
01:55:08,930 --> 01:55:07,260
your problems but for me like once I

2928
01:55:10,930 --> 01:55:08,940
started getting very serious about my

2929
01:55:14,390 --> 01:55:10,940
meditation practice it became much

2930
01:55:16,070 --> 01:55:14,400
easier to have single pointed Focus to

2931
01:55:18,229 --> 01:55:16,080
the point when I was on my zen Retreat

2932
01:55:20,990 --> 01:55:18,239
where like within the first

2933
01:55:23,930 --> 01:55:21,000
I would say by the end of the second day

2934
01:55:25,970 --> 01:55:23,940
so after about 12 hours of meditation I

2935
01:55:28,490 --> 01:55:25,980
was dropping in into that total place of

2936
01:55:30,229 --> 01:55:28,500
internal mental Stillness within three

2937
01:55:31,850 --> 01:55:30,239
or four minutes and the 30-minute sits

2938
01:55:33,830 --> 01:55:31,860
would feel like five minutes they'd just

2939
01:55:35,030 --> 01:55:33,840
blow right by it was crazy I never had

2940
01:55:37,310 --> 01:55:35,040
anything like it it was really cool

2941
01:55:38,810 --> 01:55:37,320
sounds a lot cheaper than medication and

2942
01:55:42,830 --> 01:55:38,820
Zen Retreats though so I guess I'm

2943
01:55:44,450 --> 01:55:42,840
interested yeah yeah dude

2944
01:55:47,629 --> 01:55:44,460
it'd be fun

2945
01:55:49,790 --> 01:55:47,639
I'm open I suppose

2946
01:55:53,510 --> 01:55:49,800
I'll still call it blue but I'm open you

2947
01:55:54,950 --> 01:55:53,520
can call it Wu whatever oh I do

2948
01:55:59,689 --> 01:55:54,960
uh

2949
01:56:01,129 --> 01:55:59,699
were talking about the God helmet and I

2950
01:56:03,229 --> 01:56:01,139
was like oh yeah it's probably about the

2951
01:56:05,149 --> 01:56:03,239
genres and all the computer touchers

2952
01:56:05,930 --> 01:56:05,159
that are getting into the genres uh

2953
01:56:07,970 --> 01:56:05,940
because they're all also into

2954
01:56:10,250 --> 01:56:07,980
psychedelics right like there's a huge

2955
01:56:12,410 --> 01:56:10,260
crossover here I never I never realized

2956
01:56:14,510 --> 01:56:12,420
how real the like Buddhism meditation

2957
01:56:16,669 --> 01:56:14,520
psychedelic crossover was but dude the

2958
01:56:18,950 --> 01:56:16,679
overlap of that Venn diagram like you

2959
01:56:19,729 --> 01:56:18,960
could build a [\h__\h] city

2960
01:56:21,770 --> 01:56:19,739
um

2961
01:56:24,169 --> 01:56:21,780
so we're almost at the top of the hour

2962
01:56:27,649 --> 01:56:24,179
oh wow yeah that flew by

2963
01:56:31,430 --> 01:56:30,109
nothing you already did your homework

2964
01:56:34,790 --> 01:56:31,440
you know what

2965
01:56:37,310 --> 01:56:34,800
um I I uh I made a comment to King milk

2966
01:56:39,410 --> 01:56:37,320
fart who was in here earlier I'm

2967
01:56:43,090 --> 01:56:39,420
I might look with him at some of those

2968
01:56:48,709 --> 01:56:43,100
uh biological effects uh in UFOs

2969
01:56:54,229 --> 01:56:51,890
he brought it up and uh Daniel Miller

2970
01:56:56,750 --> 01:56:54,239
and I kind of pointed out were like oh

2971
01:56:58,010 --> 01:56:56,760
well you know the sources for that

2972
01:57:00,709 --> 01:56:58,020
information was like the National

2973
01:57:01,370 --> 01:57:00,719
Enquirer right and I don't think he knew

2974
01:57:02,810 --> 01:57:01,380
that

2975
01:57:04,850 --> 01:57:02,820
um

2976
01:57:06,590 --> 01:57:04,860
I don't know it sounds it sounds like a

2977
01:57:07,550 --> 01:57:06,600
fun Rabbit Hole to go down I might look

2978
01:57:09,649 --> 01:57:07,560
into that

2979
01:57:11,930 --> 01:57:09,659
um I might uh

2980
01:57:13,609 --> 01:57:11,940
you know I don't know man I do want to

2981
01:57:15,770 --> 01:57:13,619
talk to Sprague soon about the Tehran

2982
01:57:19,129 --> 01:57:15,780
incident because that uh there is

2983
01:57:22,310 --> 01:57:19,139
something on the show yeah yeah he he

2984
01:57:23,870 --> 01:57:22,320
said he would this year I know he's done

2985
01:57:25,189 --> 01:57:23,880
like a big deep dive on it it's one of

2986
01:57:27,530 --> 01:57:25,199
his favorite cases

2987
01:57:29,089 --> 01:57:27,540
um cool coincidentally I think it was

2988
01:57:31,669 --> 01:57:29,099
the first uh somewhere in the Skies

2989
01:57:33,290 --> 01:57:31,679
episode I ever listened to hmm

2990
01:57:36,109 --> 01:57:33,300
we should check that out so something

2991
01:57:39,350 --> 01:57:36,119
along those things probably

2992
01:57:41,510 --> 01:57:39,360
you guys anybody else doing anything

2993
01:57:45,169 --> 01:57:41,520
just getting ready to do some shoveling

2994
01:57:48,229 --> 01:57:45,179
hmm it's not much though well yeah I

2995
01:57:50,870 --> 01:57:48,239
guess it keeps me uh busy yeah

2996
01:57:52,490 --> 01:57:50,880
oh I've been dodging um the flood in the

2997
01:57:55,430 --> 01:57:52,500
Central Valley

2998
01:57:57,589 --> 01:57:55,440
wow that's right yeah yeah you guys got

2999
01:57:59,330 --> 01:57:57,599
a ton of rain out there some of the

3000
01:57:59,870 --> 01:57:59,340
neighborhoods in Merced

3001
01:58:02,089 --> 01:57:59,880
um

3002
01:58:04,669 --> 01:58:02,099
they were evacuated

3003
01:58:08,270 --> 01:58:04,679
a couple of days ago

3004
01:58:10,490 --> 01:58:08,280
luckily I wasn't yeah well Leah what

3005
01:58:11,390 --> 01:58:10,500
about you what uh what do you have going

3006
01:58:15,169 --> 01:58:11,400
on

3007
01:58:17,990 --> 01:58:15,179
comment here about getting depressed

3008
01:58:19,189 --> 01:58:18,000
after meditation super super common very

3009
01:58:20,990 --> 01:58:19,199
common

3010
01:58:22,609 --> 01:58:21,000
um the kind of boilerplate

3011
01:58:24,890 --> 01:58:22,619
recommendation because I used to get

3012
01:58:26,750 --> 01:58:24,900
super anxious is to look at

3013
01:58:30,169 --> 01:58:26,760
um tranquil wisdom Insight Meditation

3014
01:58:33,050 --> 01:58:30,179
it's a meta uh like the Brahma baharas

3015
01:58:37,089 --> 01:58:33,060
like meta-like love and self-love based

3016
01:58:40,310 --> 01:58:37,099
practice and it basically is

3017
01:58:41,930 --> 01:58:40,320
like vipassana and Insight Meditation

3018
01:58:44,149 --> 01:58:41,940
even mindfulness can definitely make you

3019
01:58:45,530 --> 01:58:44,159
depressed but meta-based practices can

3020
01:58:47,510 --> 01:58:45,540
really help avert that if you're ever

3021
01:58:49,729 --> 01:58:47,520
curious or want to chat

3022
01:58:51,109 --> 01:58:49,739
um what do I have going on

3023
01:58:53,149 --> 01:58:51,119
um

3024
01:58:57,229 --> 01:58:53,159
I am going to be on strange Recon this

3025
01:58:59,089 --> 01:58:57,239
Friday uh I Jeff was a little bit

3026
01:59:00,709 --> 01:58:59,099
um obscure about what we're going to be

3027
01:59:04,129 --> 01:59:00,719
talking about the whole time of the

3028
01:59:05,390 --> 01:59:04,139
episode is Matrix mind so we'll see what

3029
01:59:07,370 --> 01:59:05,400
happens I don't know what's going to go

3030
01:59:08,930 --> 01:59:07,380
on there but I'm excited for it

3031
01:59:11,089 --> 01:59:08,940
um still plugging away on the Art Bell

3032
01:59:14,750 --> 01:59:11,099
project that will be going on this year

3033
01:59:15,350 --> 01:59:14,760
we own the night.getbook.io

3034
01:59:18,229 --> 01:59:15,360
um

3035
01:59:20,209 --> 01:59:18,239
starting off a reading group reading Ken

3036
01:59:22,310 --> 01:59:20,219
Wilbur's a brief history of everything

3037
01:59:24,649 --> 01:59:22,320
we start next Thursday so if anyone's

3038
01:59:26,390 --> 01:59:24,659
interested in joining shoot me a DM and

3039
01:59:27,950 --> 01:59:26,400
then also in February starting off a new

3040
01:59:29,270 --> 01:59:27,960
round of psychedelic book club we're

3041
01:59:31,550 --> 01:59:29,280
going to be reading the varieties of

3042
01:59:34,189 --> 01:59:31,560
spiritual experience by Dr David yaden

3043
01:59:36,830 --> 01:59:34,199
who's at the psychedelics facility

3044
01:59:39,350 --> 01:59:36,840
research whatever department at Johns

3045
01:59:41,030 --> 01:59:39,360
Hopkins so at Leah Prime on Twitter

3046
01:59:43,790 --> 01:59:41,040
shoot me a DM

3047
01:59:46,370 --> 01:59:43,800
um see you also next week the 18th we

3048
01:59:47,930 --> 01:59:46,380
have serous goals uh super excited to

3049
01:59:51,229 --> 01:59:47,940
have her on

3050
01:59:52,810 --> 01:59:51,239
um we are expecting a visit from the

3051
01:59:56,570 --> 01:59:52,820
inimitable Midwest

3052
01:59:57,950 --> 01:59:56,580
uh Marco Visconti in February I also

3053
02:00:01,250 --> 01:59:57,960
have some feelers out with other people

3054
02:00:02,750 --> 02:00:01,260
as well so um our schedule through the

3055
02:00:04,430 --> 02:00:02,760
month of February is starting to come

3056
02:00:06,589 --> 02:00:04,440
together certainly if anyone any

3057
02:00:08,390 --> 02:00:06,599
audience members or obviously colleagues

3058
02:00:11,149 --> 02:00:08,400
if you guys have ideas for guests or

3059
02:00:13,910 --> 02:00:11,159
topics that should be a message reach

3060
02:00:15,410 --> 02:00:13,920
out like I always one of the things I I

3061
02:00:17,030 --> 02:00:15,420
recently got a direct message from

3062
02:00:18,709 --> 02:00:17,040
someone in the community basically about

3063
02:00:21,709 --> 02:00:18,719
like

3064
02:00:23,270 --> 02:00:21,719
what we're doing is stewards and who who

3065
02:00:25,250 --> 02:00:23,280
we're platforming and who we're talking

3066
02:00:27,830 --> 02:00:25,260
with it wasn't derogatory or anything

3067
02:00:29,390 --> 02:00:27,840
but I I responded if you don't think

3068
02:00:31,490 --> 02:00:29,400
we're broad enough come on the show we'd

3069
02:00:33,169 --> 02:00:31,500
love to have you like yeah you know I'd

3070
02:00:34,790 --> 02:00:33,179
love to talk to people on the other side

3071
02:00:36,470 --> 02:00:34,800
of the aisle I'd love to talk to anyone

3072
02:00:38,209 --> 02:00:36,480
who's open to having a good faced

3073
02:00:40,430 --> 02:00:38,219
serious discussion about their

3074
02:00:43,310 --> 02:00:40,440
background in research so

3075
02:00:44,750 --> 02:00:43,320
um you know hey I'm always open to

3076
02:00:47,570 --> 02:00:44,760
broadening the scope of our

3077
02:00:49,729 --> 02:00:47,580
conversations absolutely I mean we got

3078
02:00:52,310 --> 02:00:49,739
the idea for this show from a random

3079
02:00:54,830 --> 02:00:52,320
Youtube comment so yeah

3080
02:00:57,050 --> 02:00:54,840
I'm sure he's not happy though that's

3081
02:00:58,570 --> 02:00:57,060
okay he'll make himself known in the

3082
02:01:03,189 --> 02:00:58,580
comments section

3083
02:01:05,450 --> 02:01:03,199
I welcome it give us another idea man

3084
02:01:07,129 --> 02:01:05,460
Gentlemen let's close out the show

3085
02:01:08,990 --> 02:01:07,139
everyone thank you so much for dropping

3086
02:01:10,790 --> 02:01:09,000
in again got a link to the uh to the

3087
02:01:12,050 --> 02:01:10,800
Discord in the show description also

3088
02:01:13,550 --> 02:01:12,060
have links to all of our respective

3089
02:01:15,649 --> 02:01:13,560
Twitter accounts

3090
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:15,659
and we'll see you next Wednesday at 9pm

3091
02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:31,310
[Music]

3092
02:02:05,420 --> 02:01:33,490
foreign

3093
02:02:09,260 --> 02:02:07,729
[Music]